"Israel" poll

Post by **__id_1302** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:52 am

True or false...

Christians should regard the modern nation calling itself Israel with profound love and admiration. This should also include love, unquestioningly and uncritically given to its Jewish citizens and those who call themselves Jewish wherever they are found on the earth. Please feel free to offer comments and scriptural support for your answer. Thanks for any answers.

I should note that this poll and the discussion that followed apparently got me banned from another Christian discussion forum. I can no longer log in there to read private messages or post, but nothing was said about it in the forum, so maybe it is only a glitch that results in me thinking I am shunned and banned.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

Post by **_Rick_C** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:28 pm

Laz,

In your Poll, to which I didn't vote, you wrote:Christians should regard the modern nation calling itself Israel with profound love and admiration. This should also include love, unquestioningly and uncritically given to its Jewish citizens and those who call themselves Jewish wherever they are found.

Christians are called to profoundly love every people in every nation, of every racial/ethnic background---regardless of what their nationality (country of origin) is, or what country they live in now.

Post by **_mattrose** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:31 pm

I agree with Rick_C. We are to love all people. I don't think we are called to have any more or less love for the nation of Israel.

Post by **_Thomas** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:52 pm

"unquestioningly and uncritically"

Christians are called to profoundly love every people in every nation, of every racial/ethnic background---regardless of what their nationality (country of origin) is, or what country they live in now.

To which I agree , but never "unquestioningly and uncritically"

That is the qualifing phrase , I vote false.

I question and critisize my wife and daughter , because I love them.

I certainly critisize my church and pastor, quite publicly , sometimes they need correction. (oftentimes I do too)

As for my own country , it's open season for all the inhabitants to downgrade. (Panama)

But to regard Israel as sacrosanct? I think not.

Thomas

Post by **__id_1302** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:28 am

"A feeling of profound love and admiration" is a short definition of the noun "worship."

To "love unquestioningly and uncritically" is from a short definition of the action known as "worship."
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Thomas is right.

Remember the Jews mentioned in Revelation 2:9.

Rev 2:9 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Outside Jesus Christ we are all the same.

Rom 3:9-18 (NASB)
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

Every human who has ever lived has only one hope:

Romans 8:1 (NASB) "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Romans 8:1 is true only "for those who are in Christ Jesus."
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Yes, we are to love all people. I have no problem loving all people, including Jewish people, but consider the words of a Palestinian Christian, whose family lived in Jerusalem for many generations until the purge of 1948. He was asked, “Is the State of Israel not in fact the fulfillment of God’s promise and a necessary step in the second coming of Christ?” The Palestinian Christian refugee replied, “You’re kidding, right? You know what they do to our people and our land. If I thought that was part of God’s plan, I’d be an atheist in a second.” (excerpts quoted from an article in the May 24, 2004 issue of The American Conservative, Forgotten Christians, by Anders Strindberg.)
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Thank you again to all who have or will respond to the poll. There is much wisdom floating around in the Family Bible Fellowship Forum.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:24 am

There are not many (or any) dispensationalists on this forum. Many dispensationalists regard Jewish people as God's chosen people forever and "the apple of His eye". They see Israel is the God-given homeland of Jewish people, and so if we are on God's side, we are on Israel's side --- right or wrong."

If any of those folks happen to discover the forum and see your poll, they will surely vote "yes". I don't think anyone else will.

I have an acquaintance who regards me as an Anti-semite because I don't unquestioningly support Israel regardless of which choices its leaders make.

Post by **__id_1302** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:34 am

There are not many (or any) dispensationalists on this forum. Many dispensationalists regard Jewish people as God's chosen people forever and "the apple of His eye". They see Israel is the God-given homeland of Jewish people, and so if we are on God's side, we are on Israel's side --- right or wrong."

Of course you are correct. Except that maybe some believe there is no wrong that can be done when Israel is only obeying the plan of God which directs its every move. They also do not see the sticky web of dispensational teaching that holds them firmly in support of this entity that came into the Middle East and destroys countless lives without remorse.

If any of those folks happen to discover the forum and see your poll, they will surely vote "yes". I don't think anyone else will.

You are probably correct. At the other forum where I ran this poll, even after I pointed out that "worship" was defined by the words used, the "true" votes continued to increase and outnumber the "false" votes.

I have an acquaintance who regards me as an Anti-semite because I don't unquestioningly support Israel regardless of which choices its leaders make.

That is my experience as well. The redefining of Judaism as Zionism has been very successful. The silencing of the message of Jewish voices that disagree with Zionism by calling them "self-hating Jews" is practiced even by many who call themselves Christians.

1John 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
1John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

Blessings,
Lazarus43