Multiple fulfillments?

[Guest]

The Jews who did not embrace the Messiah were not part of the believing remnant. Therefore they are not the group to whom the promises were made (Ps.50:16-17/ Gal.4:25-26, 30-31), have no claim upon them, and would thus have no reason to be disappointed at not having them literally fulfilled.

But what about the promise made to Jacob himself in Isaiah 29:22-24? Was he part of the believing remnant?

On the other hand, those of the believing remnant, to whom the promises were made, and to whom they were fulfilled, can hardly be expected to be disappointed to learn that the promise of a promised land was fulfilled in a heavenly country (Heb.11:16), and the promises of a redeemed Jerusalem apply to a city that has foundations, whose builder and maker is God (Heb.11:10; 12:22-23), or that the promised good shepherd was not David, but Jesus (John 10:11).

Well, I would disagree. I would think that they would be greatly disappointed. For instance, because God couldn't preserve the land that He promised to Jacob's descendants, He instead substituted a spiritual land - in heaven. Because God couldn't restore the physical city of Jerusalem to be everything that it had been meant to be, He instead substituted a spiritual city - in heaven. Because God didn't think David worthy of rulership, He instead substituted Jesus.

Jesus is certainly worthy of rulership! A heavenly Jerusalem in a heavenly country is certainly desirable! But does that mean that the physical promises then fall by the wayside?

That's where you and I differ.

Damon

PS. I had a thought this morning. My cousin's son has a stuffed monkey that he's had since he was a baby. By now, the thing is getting really old and seedy-looking. My cousin got him a new, better stuffed monkey which he happily accepted...but he still refused to give up the old one.

I honestly think the Israelites will be just as 'sentimental' about the physical land of Israel and the other physical promises they were given.

[Guest]

Damon,

How do your comments about the "dissappointment" of the Jews pair up with Hebrews 11:8-16 (especially verse 16)?

In Christ.

[Guest]

Hi Alex.

Yes, I'm familiar with this passage, but I don't see it as negating physical promises. I see it as a few of the Israelites (Abraham wasn't a Jew; rather, his great-grandson Judah was the first Jew; that's a big pet peeve of mine) looking beyond the physical promises to see spiritual promises inherent in the physical ones.

First of all, Hebrews 9:28 talks about Jesus appearing the second time without sin for salvation's sake, referring to His second coming. Is that a spiritual promise or a physical one? Also, look at Hebrews 12:26-29 where we read about God shaking both heaven and earth, so that "those things which are unshaken may remain." In other words, it's a trial of such magnitude that only the saints would be able to endure it to the end. Afterwards, they would receive the Kingdom, as this passage says. Now, does every saint go through a spiritual trial of that magnitude before they die and enter the "Kingdom of heaven"? Or, is this referring to physical calamities immediately preceding Jesus' return to earth? Which makes more sense?

I'll grant that the author of Hebrews is not pointing them to physical promises, for the most part. Why should he? The physical things - such as the Temple, the priesthood, etc. - had been or were about to be destroyed! Nevertheless, there are other Scriptures which point to a restoration of even these physical things. For example, Isaiah 2:1 - a vision "concerning Judah and Jerusalem" - about the establishment of "the house of the Lord" - that is, the Temple! At that time, the Lord would judge the nations, rebuking them and commanding them to forevermore refrain from war. Did that happen when Jesus came the first time? Since it didn't, then the "house of God" cannot be referring to the Church, at least not in the first century.

As I'd said before, I believe there is quite a bit of merit to the preterist view, but that it's not the whole picture. It doesn't fit every prophetic passage. Certainly not Isaiah 2:1-5, at least.

Damon