Does Matthew 24:34 REALLY support Preterism?

[_Paidion]

Does Matthew 24:34 really support Preterism?

From the statements of various preterists, it seems that one of the main texts offered in support is the statement of Jesus in the Olivet discourse:

Matthew 24:34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. NKJV

Preterists claim that the obvious meaning of this verse, taken at face value, is that all the predictions Jesus had made just prior to uttering this statement, must take place before the death of the generation of people alive at that time. Here are the prior predictions Jesus had made:

1. The Jewish temple will be destroyed [vs 2]
2. Many will appear claiming to be the Messiah [vs 5]
3. There will be international war, famines and earthquakes [vs 7]
4. Disciples of Jesus will be hated, persecuted and killed [vs 9]
5. Mutual hate and betrayal will abound [vs 10]
6. Many false prophets will arise and deceive many. [vs 11]
7. Lawlessness will increase, and love will grow cold. [vs 12]
8. Those who endure to the end will be saved. [vs 13]
9. The gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world, and then the end will come. [vs 14]
10. Those in Judea who see the abomination of desolation of which Daniel spoke should flee to the mountains quickly without first taking anything out of their houses, or going back for their clothes. [vs 15-18]
11. Those who are pregnant or have nursing babies will be in big trouble [vs 19]
12. Those whose flight will be in winter or on the Sabbath will be restricted in their flight. [vs 20]
13. There will be great tribulation such as has never before occurred, and such that will never occur again. [vs 21]
14. Unless those days were shortened, everybody would die, but they will be shortened for the sake of the elect. [vs 22]
15. False Messiahs and false prophets will arise and demonstrate great deceitful signs and wonders. [vs 24]
16. Anyone in those days claiming that the Messiah has come and is in secret places, are not to be believed. [vs 26]
17. As the lighting of the sun comes from the east and shines to the west, so will the coming of Christ be. (Will Christ’s coming be obvious to everyone?) [vs 27]
18. Immediately after the tribulation of those days there will be great wonders in the sky [vs 29]
19. Right after that, Christ will come and all the nations will mourn when they see Him coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [vs 30]
20. Then Christ will send his angels with a great trumpet sound and they will gather his elect from one end of heaven to the other. [vs 31]

Surely the coming of Christ described in detail in points 17-20 has not yet occurred!

Yet we read the words of Jesus:

Matthew 24:34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. NKJV

Consider the following:

Michael the Archangel gave the following prophecy to Zachariah as recorded in Luke’s gospel:

Then there appeared to him an angel of the Lord, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.

When Zechariah saw him, he was terrified; and fear overwhelmed him. But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will name him John. You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He must never drink wine or strong drink; even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit. He will turn many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. With the spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him, to turn the hearts of parents to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." Luke 1:11-17 NRSV.

Because Zachariah did not believe these words, the angel said to him:

… you will be mute and not able to speak until the day these things take place. [vs20]

The Greek construction of the phrase “until… these things take place” is identical to that in Matthew 24:34. But is it true that Zachariah was unable to speak until these things took place? No, it is not true. He recovered his speech as soon as he wrote the name of his infant son John on a tablet (verses 62-64). But Gabriel prophesied not only the birth, but also the adult ministry of John the Baptizer.

When Zachariah’s ability to speak was restored, the prophecy had begun to take place. His son had been born. Perhaps he, as well as many others, had already rejoiced at his birth. But the rest of the prophecy did not occur until after his sight was restored.

By the same token, could it also be the case that the contemporaries of Jesus (this generation) experienced the beginning of Christ’s prediction --- the destruction of the temple, as well as a few more of the predicted events, but they did not live to see all of them come to pass? It seems that the aorist tense of the Greek verb allows for this possibility.

For those who desire a technical explanation of the Greek, I offer some excerpts from a short article by Royce Gordon Gruenler found in Basics of Biblical Greek (William D. Mounce) at the beginning of chapter 22, page 189.

The aorist tense is the indefinite tense that states only the fact of the action without specifying its duration. When the aorist describes an action as a unit event it may accentuate one of three possibilities, as, imagine a ball that has been thrown:

1] Let fly (inceptive or ingressive)
2] Flew (constative or durative)
3] hit (culminative or telic)

These aspects of the indefinite aorist may shed some light on a perplexing saying of Jesus in his Olivet discourse (Mark 13:30 and parallels), “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things genātai.” … If we view the verb as an ingressive aorist and translate it from the perspective of initiated action, the saying may be rendered, “I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things begin to come to pass.” …








[/i]

[Guest]

Paidion,

I believe that on some level a partial preterist viewpoint is possible, although, like you I see something much more beyond just AD 70. I understand Mat 24 to be speaking about Christs 2nd coming, although I can see the partial preterist point of view and do not think it is wrong per say, but falls short of the full meaning if one says that it is ONLY refering to AD 70.

You make a very good point I believe with your example above at how we are to understand prophecy I believe. As I am not a hard core partial preterist only, I do not disagree with you, although I would love to hear from those who do and how they would argue against your point.

From what I remember from reading some of your posts Paidion, and correct me if I am wrong, but you believe in a premil viewpoint with a 7 year trib prior to the rapture and a literal 1000 years after? I do not believe that is what the Bible is telling us, but you make a good point in your above post against a STRICT partial preterist. At least I think so, until I hear an argument to the contrary.

Good luck brother, and I look forward to some responses.

Doug

[Guest]

Verse 20 simply shows what a change of heart can do as influence against a before mentioned proclamation. God can and does change His mind upon repentance.

What we do have, however are many, many verses that speak directly to and in favor of a first century fulfilment.

1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)

14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18 )

36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7)

50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8 )

51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8 )

60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

69. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8 )

73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:5)

74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8 )

84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17 )

85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18 )

86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)

[Guest]

Greetings!

Having to learn to read, use and understand the Greek of the LXX & NT in my calling into Holy Orders in Orthodox Christianity I have come to reject both Darby's Eschatology and Protestantism's borrowed forms of Praeterism (Consistent/Full & Inconsistent/Partial), which irronically, was originally developed by Jesuit Scholastics to defend Papal Romanism from Evangelical & Reformed Hystoricist Hermaneutics! LOL!

The Classical Greek word used in Matthew being discussed is "Genea." It is also used concerning the Children of Israel in the LXX. Genea is no longer used, but back then it had a particular meaning: Physical Progeny, Family, People, Nation or Race. So it has been understood by the Apologists, Martyrs, Fathers and present day Scholars in Old Catholicism, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy (Which Koine Greek is still spoken, written it and worshipped in), Oriental Catholicism and Orthodox Anglicanism. Strange as it may seem, most of these Jurisdiction of the Ancient Church hold to Classic A-Millennialism and tolerate Historic Millennialism.

Praeterists, who are new to Christianity.....less than 600 years. Have decided to create a new lexicon to suet themselves when it comes to this word...well Calvinists do this to many Greek and Hebrew Lexionaries. So Jehovah's Witnesses are not new in their definition switching and rejection of Linguistic Facts.

"For a fact, I tell you that this people shall not pass away until all these events transpire......"

" For a fact, I tell you this offspring shall not disappear until all of these events happen..."

"This is a stiff necked people (Heb:Dor/Gk:Genea) Masoretic/LXX Texts

"This is a stiff necked generation.."

"You progeny of vipers!"

Praeterists have affirmed that "genea's" primary definition is as I have stated......but they interpret it based upon the English generic translation "generation", and not by it's contextual usage and meaning. Since they assume Praeterism as the lens by which they read prophecy...as did Hymanaeus, they fall into the same errors. Until the Reformation Praeterism has no source from antiquity, and it is not germain or innate to A-Milleniualsim as espoused from the 5th Century until the 16th Century Anno Domini. All read, understood and taught that the Greek word "Genea" and it's Latin equivalent clearly meant in this and many more texts as "Progeny, Offspring, Family, People, Nation or Race"...just as it is exactly used by God in descriptive use of the rebellious Hebrew Nation.

Since Jesus is the same God, and the Subject he was speaking about was the same rebellious Hebrew Nation...why the sudden meaning switch after the rise of the Reformation? It was denounced as Novel by Rome and then adopted by later Protestants! What next...Protestant Indulgencies?


In Christ,
Orthodox1

[Guest]

Thanks Orthodox1,

I found your reply very good, and have always understood Genea as Physical Progeny, Family, People, Nation or Race as well as generation. But having recently come to hear and see the partial preterist view as well, I can at least see how the partial preterist understands it and I don't think they are wrong per say, but I have always understood it like you do as well. And I think that they can both be correct. Why would it have to be one or the other? Is God not the great economist?

[_Paidion]

I, too, understand the word to refer to the Jewish people, and have argued so in other threads. (I don't see how it can refer to "both", Douglas. Surely Jesus means either the one or the other.)

But that is not the point here. The point is that even if the word refers to the generation of people living at the time, as Preterists affirm, it still does not prove that all of those things had to occur before that generation passed away. For clearly, a similar prediction was made to Zechariah concerning John the Baptizer in which most of the predictions did not take place before his sight was restored.

Allyn, I looked at your verses, and could not find even one which indicates that the predictions of Matthew 24 had all taken place in the first century. However, I suppose if one approaches the verses with that predilection, they could be viewed as supportive.

[Guest]

Paidion,

I don't disagree with you regarding the use of the word Genea to mean the Jewish race bro, but why could it not also mean on another level generation? I guess I only question how can we be sure that Jesus only means one or the other and that He is not a great economist of words and that He is not speaking of both on some level?

I have been a Christian all my life (only a whopping 39 years), and I have always understood Matt 24 to be speaking of the 2nd coming of Christ, but having recently evaluated the preterist understanding of this chapter, I can see truth in it as well. And since I see both as being equally true, I asked myself must only ONE view be correct and the other wrong? I am not so sure that is the case in this particular discussion. I don't know.

What evidence would we use to say that both cannot be correct? I don't know, I am only searching for truth bro.

Doug
Doug

[Guest]

There is no "Jewish race." Converts from places scattered over the earth make up the people calling themselves Jewish. Genea can't mean "Jewish race." Try substituting "Jewish race" in every passage where genea is translated "generation."

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

Lazarus43,

I guess I meant basicaly "race" and I only added Jewish because the audience was Jewish. And therefore the implication I guess would be Jewish race.

I am no greek scholar, so I have always relied on way more smarter people than myself, and I have been told by some very scholarly individuals that the word "Genea" can mean race or generation depending on context. Is this not correct?

[_Paidion]

There is no "Jewish race." Converts from places scattered over the earth make up the people calling themselves Jewish. Genea can't mean "Jewish race." Try substituting "Jewish race" in every passage where genea is translated "generation."

So there is no Jewish race simply because Jewish people are converts from many different ethnic origins. Tell me, is there no "Christian race" on the same basis? Second century Christian writers made reference to "The Christian Race". It would seem that the word "race" in those days was often used with reference to a group which had a common philosophy or religion.