Was the Bar Kochba revolt prophesied?

[Guest]

Something that I have wondered about is whether the Jewish Bar Kochba revolt might be considered a fulfillment of prophecy from the Bible. It seems possible to me. I would be interested in any information that the scholars here could provide. Thank you.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

Hello Laz,

Click: Livius: First Century Judea.
Under Messianic Claimants see Simon ben Kosiba (aka, Simon bar Kochba, a kind of nickname meaning "son of a star", a reference to Balaam's prophecy in Numbers 24).
(Also see Bar Kochba Revolt. Note: both "ben" and "bar" mean "son of").

I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star shall come out of Jacob and a scepter will rise out of Israel. It shall crush the foreheads of Moab and break down all the sons of Sheth. Edom shall be dispossessed (Numbers 24:17-19).

Christians see in Jesus a fulfillment of this person and prophecy.
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star"
(Re 22:16, ESV).
(Note: This Rev. text may, or may not, reference to Nu. 24; the "morning star" is also referenced elsewhere. If I'm not mistaken, some Early Fathers wrote that Jesus was referenced in Nu. 24. Steve (Gregg) probably knows more on this...a busy man though)!

[quote=""Googling-ideas" ... I found http://www.letusreason.org/Juda1.htm which"]Gen 49:10 - "The scepter shall not depart from Judah nor the rulers staff from between his feet until the SHILO comes and to Him be the obedience of the people." Shilo was one of the places the Ark of the Covenant dwelt .

Every tribe of Israel had its own scepter a staff with its name inscribed on it. The scepter represents its judicial authority . The removal of the scepter occurred when Herod the Great, who was not a Jew became King and the Sanhedrin had its power limited. Both of these happened during the lifetime of Jesus. The name Shiloh is synonymous with the name of the Messiah ( Talmud Sanh.98B) It means WHO IS IT. So according to this prophecy the Messiah had to come before the scepter was removed from Judah. Numbers 24:17 "I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; a Star shall come out of Jacob; a Scepter shall rise out of Israel, and batter the brow of Moab, and destroy all the sons of tumult." This is a vision which spans over 1,500 years. This star was not something seen in the sky, but a person coming from the lineage of Jacob who has glory. Jacob who birthed Israel the nation, Salvation will come from the Jews.[/quote]

Rabbi Akiba (spelled Aqiba on this site) believed and taught that Simon ben Kosiba was the Messiah. Akiba was the president of the Council of Yavne (or Javneh): the post 70AD War reorganization of the Jews which convened in 89AD. He is, in a sense, a "founder" of Rabbinic Judaism. Akiba is also one of the first, and perhaps the first, teachers of Kaballah ("traditions, passed on") Jewish mysticism, which has roots in the first century. Kaballah is probably linked back to the older Merkabah ("chariot") mysticism but that's another topic....

Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai taught: 'Aqiba, my master, used to interpret a star goes forth from Jacob as a Kozeba goes forth from Jacob.' Rabbi Aqiba, when he saw Ben Kozeba, said: 'This is the King Messiah.' Rabbi Yohanan ben Torta said to him: 'Aqiba! Grass will grow on your cheeks and still the Son of David does not come!' (Palestinian Talmud, Ta`anit 4.5)

Wikepedia has some stuff on Simon ben Kosiba (or bar Kochba) and Rabbi Akiba. Both of these men are great "studies" as we get a lot of NT background information from them (especially Akiba). Thanks,

[Guest]

Rick,

Thank you. I have no doubt that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled all the Old Testament messianic prophesies. I just see some things about this second century Jewish revolt that remind me of passages of Scripture. An example:

Midrash Rabbah Lamentations 2.2§4
They slew the inhabitants until the horses waded in blood up to the nostrils, and the blood rolled along stones (with the size of 284 liters) and flowed into the sea, staining it for a distance of six kilometers. (In case you think that Bethar is close to the sea: was it not in fact sixty kilometers distant from it?)

Now Hadrian possessed a large vineyard 46 kilometers square, as far as from Tiberias to Sepphoris, and they surrounded it with a fence consisting of the slain of Bethar. And it was decreed that they should not be buried, until a certain emperor arose and ordered their interment...

*Excerpt quoted from the web page here.

Could that be this:

"The winepress was trodden outside of the city, and blood came out from the winepress, even to the bridles of the horses, as far as one thousand six hundred stadia." Revelation 14:20 (Hebrew Names Version)

Perhaps there is another similar event in history of which I am not aware.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

Rick,

Thank you. I have no doubt that Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled all the Old Testament messianic prophesies. I just see some things about this second century Jewish revolt that remind me of passages of Scripture. An example:

Midrash Rabbah Lamentations 2.2§4
They slew the inhabitants until the horses waded in blood up to the nostrils, and the blood rolled along stones (with the size of 284 liters) and flowed into the sea, staining it for a distance of six kilometers. (In case you think that Bethar is close to the sea: was it not in fact sixty kilometers distant from it?)

Now Hadrian possessed a large vineyard 46 kilometers square, as far as from Tiberias to Sepphoris, and they surrounded it with a fence consisting of the slain of Bethar. And it was decreed that they should not be buried, until a certain emperor arose and ordered their interment...

*Excerpt quoted from the web page here.

Could that be this:

"The winepress was trodden outside of the city, and blood came out from the winepress, even to the bridles of the horses, as far as one thousand six hundred stadia." Revelation 14:20 (Hebrew Names Version)

Perhaps there is another similar event in history of which I am not aware.

You're welcome and thanks for the link.

I'm wondering if: Do you take the Historicist view of prophecy and/or the book of Revelation? Reason why I ask is, this view sees events in history from the time of Christ till "now" (or till the Second Coming) as predicted in Scripture. This sounds like "what you might be looking for," so to speak.

I'm sure the literature has "scriptural" references for the many Messianic Claimants. That is, there are probably scriptural texts that were applied to them (which doesn't necessarily indicate they were who they said they were! especially for the guys who are dead right now)....

If I'm not mistaken, Josephus also wrote about "blood being up to the horse's bridle" in his description of the 70AD War.

I'm not of the Historicist camp in eschatology; being more or less a partial-preterist and amillennialist (just about like Steve Gregg, he & I see eye-to-eye on eschatology),

The events of the Bar Kochba Revolt and the 70AD War were similar. In the above quotes they used the same language (e.g., "horse's bridle") to describe what happened at both events.

That Bar Kochba was a false messiah is documented, as far as that goes (he lost his revolt & died). Btw, when the Bar Kochba rebellion failed, Rabbi Akiba was taken by the Roman authorities and tortured to death.

But do I think the Bar Kochba Revolt was prophesied in the Bible?
Possibly.
By Jesus when he said "False Christs will arise...and deceive many" (though he may not have had post-70AD figures in mind (?).
See Matt 24:23-26. Thanks,

[Guest]

...If I'm not mistaken, Josephus also wrote about "blood being up to the horse's bridle" in his description of the 70AD War.

I'm not of the Historicist camp in eschatology; being more or less a partial-preterist and amillennialist (just about like Steve Gregg, he & I see eye-to-eye on eschatology), Wink

The events of the Bar Kochba Revolt and the 70AD War were similar. In the above quotes they used the same language (e.g., "horse's bridle") to describe what happened at both events...

I have read what Josephus wrote about the 70AD War and do not recall any reference similar to "blood being up to the horse's bridle" in that account.

In searching for information, I have recently come across some writings by Maurice A. Williams on the internet. A work of his, "BAR KOCKBA LAST PRINCE OF ISRAEL" can be read at link.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

Yes, (I was wrong about Josephus).

I found:
"They [the Romans under Hadrian] slew the inhabitants [of Betar, after Bar-Kosiba, its defender, had been killed] until the horses waded in blood up to the nostrils, and the blood rolled along stones of the size of forty se'ah and flowed into the sea a distance of four miles" (Lamentations Rabbah 2:2:4).

Thanks for the link, (good one),