All the name calling must have thrown me off!SteveF wrote:RND, I think you’re missing what Steve is trying to say.
Maybe he did....at one time. But recently it's been very negative with uncalled for personal attacks and insults.Here’s what Steve wrote to welcome you to the forum back in December
Hi David,
It's good to have you input. I look forward to more discussion of the conditional immortality position (and any other subjects you may post about).
I think he means it!
Steve, I really appreciate very much what you are saying here. I truly do. I appreciate in fact every time you have offered a suggestion or expressed you opinion regarding any particular matter. And it is certainly true I could probably be more honed in my debating style or how I dialogue with people. At the same time I think it is unnecessary to use such harsh language and childish name calling regarding how another person dialogues with another, which is exactly what Steve did. I noticed that these attacks seem to increase the more Steve's arguments held less and less weight considering the mountain of evidence that was presented to him. Instead of making a point and using scripture to solidify that point he reduced himself to shameless name calling.I don’t think Steve is afraid of being shown up. He actually spends more time reading the material of those with whom he has a different position….so he can learn. I'm not aware of anyone on this forum that agrees with Steve on everything. In fact, a number seem to disagree on quite a variety of issues.
I think Steve, and I can speak for myself here as well, would like dialogue. Often that is what’s lacking. Let me make a potentially lame attempt at an illustration:
Let’s say you hold to a Young Earth Creation position and I hold to a Theistic Evolution position. I might start a thread presenting my arguments from scripture for TE. Then you respond with your explanation from scripture in support of YEC and engage some of my ideas at the same time. If my response to your explanation was merely “I’ve already spelled out what the Bible says on that issue” and posted links to a couple of long articles defending TE would you find that satisfying? Wouldn’t you prefer if I actually showed that I understood what you were trying to say by engaging the points you were making?
I know you don’t do this all the time but whenever you do, as Steve said, it can discourage some from dialoguing with you. I only write this RND because I, and I’m sure others, would like to dialogue with you more.
Yeah, I understand your point and if I may I would certainly disagree with you. I see the state of the dead question vitally important for understanding the future of this world and the definitely signs we need to look for to indicate the deception that is sure to come. Satan we are told can come in the form of a "messanger of light" and because the "coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders." If we are not sure exactly what is taught in scripture how do we know for sure we won't be fooled?PS...just to keep things in perspective. Although many here, including myself, find topics like soul sleep interesting, we do need to realise its relative importance...which is not high. Sometimes we can "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel".
I know people roll their eye when I make a point, especially when I use the writings of Ellen White to do so. But read carefully the warning contained here:
"Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.
As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought,the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.
The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world and the ushering in of the long-expected millennium." - The Great Controversy page 589
The reason I offer this quote is the obvious trends that have been taking place in the country in just the last few years. The proliferation of television shows about ghost chasing, haunted houses, poltergeists, et al have risen dramatically in just the last few years. I did not use this quotation to say, "see this was prophesied by EGW" because it wasn't, it was clearly prophesied by the scriptures. We are in the throws of the process aimed at "normalizing" what God considers to be an abomination. <----end of rant.
Anyway Steve, thanks again for your comments and instruction which was very constructive.