One simple question regarding audience relevance

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Allyn
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Allyn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:37 pm

SteveF wrote:
I'm not sure I follow you because the scoffers were the reason Peter made the statement.
Hi Allyn, where do you read that?
I was setting the context of 2nd Peter.
Allyn wrote:Sure. Its just a simple observation that there is no mention of this in the non-preterist camp, as important as it is given Peter wrote a letter bringing it to the forefront.
SteveF wrote:Perhaps, no mention that you're aware of. I've heard/read others stress the importance of this event that are non-preterists (I'm assuming you mean Full Prets). I've also seen the importance of it (as seen above) independent of any Full Preterist input.
Good enough

SteveF

Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by SteveF » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:49 pm

I was setting the context of 2nd Peter.
Hi Allyn, I simply see him seeking to fortify them in the faith he exhorted them to in the previous verses. This would then enable them to stand against those mentioned in chapter 2. I don't see Peter refuting anyone regarding the coming of the Lord in vs 16. He is addressing Christians who "are established in the truth".

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Allyn
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Allyn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:29 pm

SteveF wrote:
I was setting the context of 2nd Peter.
Hi Allyn, I simply see him seeking to fortify them in the faith he exhorted them to in the previous verses. This would then enable them to stand against those mentioned in chapter 2. I don't see Peter refuting anyone regarding the coming of the Lord in vs 16. He is addressing Christians who "are established in the truth".
Thus we have the purpose for a discussion board - thanks steve

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Mellontes
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Mellontes » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:43 pm

steve7150 wrote:Another thing you said was "evil will be finished." My understanding of evil probably varies from yours. If your evil is in reference to sin and death, then I must say that it is abolished in Christ, because he is the fulfillment of those things.

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It would appear to me that the death that is abolished in Christ is NOT pysical death, is it? <--- that is a question for you.


These things abolished are for believers , evil still abounds in the world.
We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!

Conquest
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Conquest » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:01 pm

Mellontes wrote:
steve7150 wrote:Another thing you said was "evil will be finished." My understanding of evil probably varies from yours. If your evil is in reference to sin and death, then I must say that it is abolished in Christ, because he is the fulfillment of those things.

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It would appear to me that the death that is abolished in Christ is NOT pysical death, is it? <--- that is a question for you.


These things abolished are for believers , evil still abounds in the world.
We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God [3] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:20-28

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Mellontes
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Mellontes » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:22 pm

SteveF wrote: Mellontes, I'm not sure I know exactly what you're saying here but i think you may have misunderstood 2 Pet 3:9. Can you explain to me why you think Peter made the statement, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise."? Do you see this statement in the context of the mockers mentioned in vs. 3 and 4 of 2 Pet 3? I do. In fact, I think Peter is making a completely different point than what you're making. I think he's replying to the mockers by saying, the Lord is not slow to come like you say, but rather he's putting it off for mercy's sake. In that context he points out that to God 1000 years is like a day.... so don't base his coming on your man centered time table ("as some men count slackness"). Thus, as Steve7150 pointed out, Peter opens the door for a coming that may be distant.
I guess we have to determine what the promise was and where it originated. I am going to say the promise was regarding His coming. I would also relate it directly to the scoffers from 2 Peter 3:3-4 who questioned the so-called delay of his coming ("Where is the promise of his coming? "). I would also tend to believe that these scoffers were either unbelieving Jews or Jewish Christians who had fallen away based upon the usage of fathers in "since the fathers fell asleep" (Matthew 23:30, Matthew 23:32, Luke 1:55, Luke 1:72, etc.) This is not something the unbelieving Gentile would even consider.

Peter tells his audience that the Lord is NOT slack concerning His promise. In other words, He will surely keep His word as to what He would do in the time frame He said He would do it. I think Peter offered support for this theme by quoting Psalm 90:4 in regard to His faithfulness.

As to the longsuffering, I believe God had allowed a certain length of time to transpire before He would come. Realizing that Mathew 24:34 is a sore spot for most, I will still say that Jesus promised to return within that first century generation. The duration for repentance had been set. Time was drawing close to the end of that time frame. And if you will allow a parallel,,,remember the Exodus and how God purged out everyone who didn't believe for one generation of 40 years before going into the promised land? Well, we have the same thing here, only this time he is gathering believers to go into the kingdom (the fullness of the kingdom) for a 40-year generation. Because God was seemingly delaying because He was being merciful, the scoffers would criticize God and accuse Him of not keeping His promises. Paul had spoken of all this end time stuff in all of his letters that Peter's audience was privy too. They would be well aware of the end of the age that was to befall there era.

For me, the time had been set. He was not putting it off for mercy sake. He defined a period and everyone was aware of this period (except for futurists )...Hey, relax it is a joke. I couldn't resist :D :D

I hope this answers your question.

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Mellontes
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Mellontes » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:30 pm

Conquest wrote:
Mellontes wrote:
steve7150 wrote:Another thing you said was "evil will be finished." My understanding of evil probably varies from yours. If your evil is in reference to sin and death, then I must say that it is abolished in Christ, because he is the fulfillment of those things.

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It would appear to me that the death that is abolished in Christ is NOT pysical death, is it? <--- that is a question for you.


These things abolished are for believers , evil still abounds in the world.
We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God [3] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:20-28
Huh??? Where is this non-continuing evil in that passage? I see some things that are abolished in Christ like enemies and death for instance...Hopefully, you are not suggesting "that all things in subjection" means no more evil (in the world)? I was hoping you would have clarified what you meant by evil and where it was to no longer not be. Maybe next time.
Last edited by Mellontes on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Allyn
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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Allyn » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:31 pm

Conquest wrote:
Mellontes wrote:
steve7150 wrote:Another thing you said was "evil will be finished." My understanding of evil probably varies from yours. If your evil is in reference to sin and death, then I must say that it is abolished in Christ, because he is the fulfillment of those things.

2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

It would appear to me that the death that is abolished in Christ is NOT pysical death, is it? <--- that is a question for you.


These things abolished are for believers , evil still abounds in the world.
We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God [3] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:20-28
Hey PaulT, I thought you had been banned from this forum and now you come in as Conquest? If this is so then I wonder how the administrators of this forum like that.

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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Conquest » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:39 pm

Mellontes wrote: We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!

20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God [3] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Huh??? Where is this non-continuing evil in that passage? I see some things that are abolished in Christ like enemies and death for instance...Hopefully, you are not suggesting "that all things in subjection" means no more evil (in the world)? I was hoping you would have clarified what you meant by evil and where it was to no longer not be. Maybe next time.
You think evil exists where God is "all in all"? What an interesting view of God you have. Oh, and "every" means "some things" to you? I guess this can go down to "every" means "every" to me, and not you. Its as simple as that. FWIW, I wouldn't think a Christian would need the clarification God's presence requires no sin or evil. But then again, you do have an interesting view of God.


Conquest

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Re: One simple question regarding audience relevance

Post by Mellontes » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:45 pm

Conquest wrote:
Mellontes wrote: We agree that those things are abolished in the believer. This is good. These are redemptive themes. Now, I must insist upon Scriptural proof to provide support for your assertion that evil will one day be abolished for everyone. That is, if that is what you are inferring - that there will come a day when there is no more evil (in this world?) Please clarify what exactly you mean and then provide the exact verses. Please don't say the book of Ezekiel proves my case and things like that :D

Thanks for answering my question!

20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God [3] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.1 Corinthians 15:20-28

Huh??? Where is this non-continuing evil in that passage? I see some things that are abolished in Christ like enemies and death for instance...Hopefully, you are not suggesting "that all things in subjection" means no more evil (in the world)? I was hoping you would have clarified what you meant by evil and where it was to no longer not be. Maybe next time.
You think evil exists where God is "all in all"? What an interesting view of God you have. Oh, and "every" means "some things" to you? I guess this can go down to "every" means "every" to me, and not you. Its as simple as that. FWIW, I wouldn't think a Christian would need the clarification God's presence requires no sin or evil. But then again, you do have an interesting view of God.

Conquest
Sorry PaulT, I am not playing your belittlement game any more...And God being all in all could mean just about anything. I don't suppose you'd care to define it using Scripture for support would you?

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