Will a large revival precede the 2nd coming?

[psimmond]

I've always believed that the world will become more and more ungodly leading up to the return of Christ; recently, however, I read that many believe there will be a huge revival prior to Christ's return.

Can anyone tell me where this revival view comes from.

Thanks,
Peter

[steve]

I believe the majority of those who predict a great end-times revival are influenced by the Latter Rain Theology that sprang up in Pentecostal circles in the late 1940s and early 50s. William Branham is often popularly associated with this movement (or even seen as its founder), though it actually began with a revival at a Christian school in Canada, among some who had attended Branham's meetings. This movement had its precursor in R.G. Spurling's "Latter Rain Movement" of the late 19th century, which preceded and incorporated the Pentecostal revival of 1900 at Azusa Street, Los Angeles.

The concept of "the latter rain" is, in the first instance, a reference to the weather patterns in Israel, where farmers cultivated their crops in harmony with two rainy seasons, which they called, respectively, "the early rain" (in October) and "the latter rain" (in March or April).

The use of the latter term by those in The Latter Rain Movement was taken from passages like Joel 2:23–29 and James 5:7. The latter rain, in Joel, would appear to be associated with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (see Acts 2), though many wish to apply it to a similar outpouring in the "last days."

One of the most controversial doctrines of the Latter Rain Movement was the doctrine of the "Manifestation of the Sons of God," which taught that the completion of the Great Commission will be accomplished through a company of end-times "overcomers," or "Manifest Sons," who would attain immortality in this life, receiving their glorified bodies before others, and would possess all the miraculous powers that Jesus exhibited.

Other passages in Joel were mistakenly applied to the end-times church, including the famous passage about "Joel's Army", in Joel 2:2-11, which actually describes a locust plague, but was mistakenly thought to describe an invincible church of the end times (which they called "the manifest sons of God"), who march throughout the land conquering the world with the gospel and miraculous displays of the power of God.

This was a deliberate break from the more pessimistic end times views of dispensationalism, which the Pentecostal Movement, on the whole, had embraced. Thus, the Latter Rain Movement was denounced by Pentecostal denominations, like the Assemblies of God—but many of its elements have continued in the Charismatic Movement of the last 50 years.

Although the stranger interpretations of this movement have receded into the margins of charismatic theology, the optimistic outlook of the Latter Rain teaching has proved irresistible to many Christians longing to see Christ vindicated and His kingdom triumphant in the world. They, either wistfully or confidently, speak of the great end-times revival as though there is a clear prediction of such in scripture. The resurgence of postmillennialism, in the last few decades, has similarly fed into this hopeful attitude among many, though postmillennialism can see the world conquest as taking place gradually, through more ordinary evangelistic means, and not necessarily suddenly through a massive revival.

[Paidion]

The "Latter Rain" groups, and several other groups had their origin in the "1948 Revival" at North Battleford, Saskatchewan, at a Bible school (composed mostly of people from the P.A.O.C. denomination) during which prophecies came indicating that God was restoring His church, the five-fold ministry, elders and deacons in the local churches, and much more. Denominationalism was rejected, and people were to meet only as Christians or disciples of Christ. The bread and wine of communion was taken every Sunday as in the early church. There was singing in the spirit which was said to sound like a heavenly choir. Elders and deacons were seen as being placed by God at three levels, the wider church level, where they were called "travelling elders and deacons", the local church level, and the home level, where the father was considered to be the elder in his home, and his wife the deacon (or "deaconess" if you prefer, but the Greek of the NT uses the same word for male as for female deacons). At each level, the deacon is seen as being an assistant or helper to the elder.

The original group of people who were present at this special move of God, continued to assemble according to the revelation. They continue today in the same manner, though several groups have formed as a result of separating from the original. For there were many hundreds of people from all over Canada and United States who travelled to North Battleford to investigate the phenomenon which was observed in that revelation in 1948. The original group refers to their circle of fellowship as "This present move of God", but outsiders call them "The North Battleford Group". The people of the group believe that God has established, through elders and deacons, a system of authority. Ideally, the members of a family will be subject to the elder in the home, the congregation will be subject to the elders of the local church, and the local churches will be subject to the travelling elders (called "apostles" by some, though the travelling elders do not refer to themselves in this way). Their publication is called The Sharon Star. This publication may be read online at the following link:

http://thesharonstar.org/

In 1956, it was stated in an editorial in The Sharon Star, "This is not a revival. It is a revolution, a regeneration, a reconstitution of everything."

[Mellontes]

I've always believed that the world will become more and more ungodly leading up to the return of Christ; recently, however, I read that many believe there will be a huge revival prior to Christ's return.

Can anyone tell me where this revival view comes from.

Thanks,
Peter

Although completely opposed to the events regarding North Battleford, Saskatchewan and their version of the latter rain, this revival view is not so mistaken after all.

- The Gospel was to be preached to every creature, etc. just prior to the "end." (http://theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3435)

- Joel's prophecy (2:23-29 as mentioned by Steve) is a promise to those living in the last days. This is verified by Peter' quote of Acts 2:17 saying that these last days had then arrived.

- Malachi 4:5-6 (a recent topic of late) also predicts a restoration. This was clearly ministered by John the Baptist when comparing the Malachi verses with Luke 1:17

However, as you can see, it does not reflect a FUTURE latter rain...

[Paidion]

Malachi 4:5-6 (a recent topic of late) also predicts a restoration. This was clearly ministered by John the Baptist when comparing the Malachi verses with Luke 1:17

Clearly? It isn't clear to me.

And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?”
He answered, “Elijah is coming, and he will restore all things." Matthew 17:11


Jesus said, Elijah will (future to his time) restore all things. But when Jesus spoke these words, John the Baptist had already been beheaded (Matthew 14:10), so how could He have been speaking of John the Baptist?

However, immediately after Jesus said this, He said:

But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognise him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."
Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

And so clearly (now I'm using the word), Jesus spoke of two senses in which the prophecy of Elijah's coming would be fulfilled. The first, by John the Baptist, who came in the spirit and power of Elijah, and fulfilled some of the prophecies about Elijah's coming, and the second in the future when Elijah is coming and will restore all things.

[Mellontes]

[And so clearly (now I'm using the word), Jesus spoke of two senses in which the prophecy of Elijah's coming would be fulfilled. The first, by John the Baptist, who came in the spirit and power of Elijah, and fulfilled some of the prophecies about Elijah's coming, and the second in the future when Elijah is coming and will restore all things.

I would be willing to agree with you, Paidion, if it weren't for Scripture...

Luke 1:13-17 - But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Compared with Malachi 4:5-6...

Malachi 4:5-6 - Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

I guess that is what I meant by "clear." Perhaps Jesus' words of "Elijah is coming, and he will restore all things" would be better understood in that he was just quoting the OT prophets as to what would happen. To me, He clarifies the prophecy by stating this Elijah had already come - especially when combining it with Zacharias' recognition of this fulfillment in his son, John the Baptist...

[StephenPatrick]

Good afternoon.

In Young's Literal Translation, Matthew 17:11-12 says
And Jesus answering said to them, `Elijah doth indeed come first, and shall restore all things,
and I say to you -- Elijah did already come, and they did not know him, but did with him whatever they would, so also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.'

I think Jesus is just stating the fact that Elijah does come first, then says he already came, but the majority of the people didn't recognize him.

[Mellontes]

Good afternoon.

In Young's Literal Translation, Matthew 17:11-12 says
And Jesus answering said to them, `Elijah doth indeed come first, and shall restore all things,
and I say to you -- Elijah did already come, and they did not know him, but did with him whatever they would, so also the Son of Man is about to suffer by them.'

I think Jesus is just stating the fact that Elijah does come first, then says he already came, but the majority of the people didn't recognize him.

Sounds pretty common sensical to me...especially since the question from verse 10 was in regard to "WHY then say the scribes that Elias must first come?" It would stand to reason that the reason why is because the prophets said so. I am pretty certain this is WHY Jesus answered them in that regard...and then said that he had already come. I think the reason most can't seem to understand this is because their traditional paradigm takes precedence over Scripture and maybe because they just don't like the idea of past comings, even when applying them to John the Baptist...

[steve]

Perhaps Jesus' words of "Elijah is coming, and he will restore all things" would be better understood in that he was just quoting the OT prophets as to what would happen. To me, He clarifies the prophecy by stating this Elijah had already come

Mellontes,

This is how I have come to understand Jesus' statement also. I had not heard it expressed previously, but some years ago, I decided that this was what Jesus was doing, namely, paraphrasing Malachi's words as "Elijah surely comes first and restores all things." It might not seem like a very exact paraphrase, but it might have been a faithful rendering of how the rabbis understood the passage.

[Mellontes]

Perhaps Jesus' words of "Elijah is coming, and he will restore all things" would be better understood in that he was just quoting the OT prophets as to what would happen. To me, He clarifies the prophecy by stating this Elijah had already come

Mellontes,

This is how I have come to understand Jesus' statement also. I had not heard it expressed previously, but some years ago, I decided that this was what Jesus was doing, namely, paraphrasing Malachi's words as "Elijah surely comes first and restores all things." It might not seem like a very exact paraphrase, but it might have been a faithful rendering of how the rabbis understood the passage.

No problem there. I think (well, of course I do ) that Elijah's coming in the ministry of John the Baptist (not a literal, physical coming) may be a tad representative of Jesus' past coming as being representative of previous days of the Lord where a literal, physical God did not show Himself either and used other people or nations (and even insects on one occasion) to carry out the judgments similar to the judgment upon Judaism and their physical temple system in 70 AD...but I also understand that many do not see it that way...