Jesus taking the penalty for our sins

[jarrod]

We have been going through the book of Matthew in our Bible study. While reading through chapters 26-27 I wondered if there was any indication that Jesus' suffering extended past the physical and had spiritual implications as well. One of the high school students (who is skeptical) wondered why it was such a big deal that Jesus died if He knew He would be raised in three days. My first response was to suggest that there may have been spiritual suffering that we were not aware of that would be unbearable by any natural man. After thinking some more, it seemed to me a greater feat that Jesus lived a sinless life in completely harmony with the will of God -- that which no man could ever accomplish.

Anyway, I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on Jesus' suffering being spiritual as well as physical?

Jarrod

[steve7150]

why it was such a big deal that Jesus died if He knew He would be raised in three days. My first response was to suggest that there may have been spiritual suffering






I'm not Steve G , but i think the cup Jesus had to drink from and what he feared was the spiritual separation from his Father,(Psalm 22) not any physical pain he would endure.

[Paidion]

You could be right, Steve, though I always thought it was the cup of physical suffering. The thing that interests me is that Christ prayed, "If it is possible, let this cup pass from me." In this way, though He had announced that He had to suffer and die, He still thought the Father might permit Him to avoid going through with it. So could it be that He that, although He had announced that He would be raised to life the third day, He had some doubts about it near the time of his death?

[steve7150]

So could it be that He that, although He had announced that He would be raised to life the third day, He had some doubts about it near the time of his death?






Jesus had said that all scripture had to be fulfilled and he knew Isaiah 53 so i think it's unlikely he had any doubts. So it seems he had a real fear and the only thing he had never experienced was being apart from his Father, so that's just my guess as i have no proof.

[Paidion]

So it seems he had a real fear and the only thing he had never experienced was being apart from his Father, so that's just my guess as i have no proof.

He had never experienced death either. Could He have feared death?

[steve7150]

He had never experienced death either. Could He have feared death?




Yes it's possible but as you know there are even secular people who don't fear death so don't you think Jesus would have more courage then them? I suspect it's something more unique.

[look2jesus]

I feel that the thing Jesus was most desirous of avoiding was "bearing our sins in His own body", which was necessary for our justification. I'm not convinced that there was actual separation between Him and the Father. There is a difference between being forsaken and being separated (especially considering the trinitarian understanding of God), and Jesus' cry, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (quoting Psalm 22) could certainly represent a symbolic gesture, pointing to the holiness of God as pertaining to mankind's sins, without necessarily implying an actual separation between persons of the Godhead. Paul said that "in Christ, God was reconciling the world to himself", which could put the Father, in some sense, at the cross together with Jesus. Philosophically, it seems to me that true separation from God would only have been possible if Jesus had experienced "spiritual death", and I don't see any evidence in the scripture that that ever occured or that it would even be possible.

[TK]

I think I heard Steve G teach that perhaps when Jesus quoted the opening lines of Ps 22 simply to signal to the onlookers that this prophetic scripture was being fulfilled. He didnt have the strength to recite the entire Psalm.

TK

[Paidion]

My thought is that Jesus, as a fully human person, felt that God had forsaken Him, but that He was mistaken.

[look2jesus]

Paidion,

I think if Hebrews 13:5-6 means what it sounds like to me, then what you wrote would seem to show unbelief on the part of Jesus, which I don't think was the case. What do you think?

l2j