“What is a good question to ask a Mormon?” by a mormon.

[steve]

Can you share a few examples of the things in your scriptures that you feel we would be better enriched to have?

[KyleB]

but I have access to truths and blessings that you are missing out on and I’d like to give you access to all of that.

Yes, without getting into endless internet debates over whether Mormon scriptures and prophets are inspired/accurate/etc., what are a few of the truths you refer to that might be hindering me in: My understanding of the Lordship of Christ, what God is expecting in my moral behavior, or the nature of salvation and how it is acquired?

As a side question, would you say that Mormons consider the basic Bible to be flawed, or just incomplete?

Thanks,
-Kyle

[jesusrules777]

I was approached in my neighborhood the other day by a couple of mormons. My first reaction was to avoid them, but the Holy Spirit led me to speak with them.

I was led to compliment their efforts, be loving and share what Jesus has done for me in my life. I asked them if they found their own faith, or was it all they knew from growing up in that church and belief system. I asked them if they hadn't known anything else, how did they truly know they had the TRUTH?

I shared with them that I too had gone to that church as a child and was open to the TRUTH, not just what I was told in my family was true. I explained that I had gone door to door as a Believer and experienced persecution. The difference was I went to people's homes to love them and allow the Holy Spirit to speak through me to meet their needs, not attempt to convince them they needed a particular book. I told them that their attempts to give me this book, felt like they were arrogant in believing that they had something I didn't. They truly listened and agreed with me.

I asked them to pray for me and got both of their names to pray for them as well. I shared that satan uses division as one of his biggest weapons to keep people from God and I was not going to allow that to happen with them. I applauded their dedication (how often to we see Christians offering FREE books?) and told them that if we truly seek Him with all our heart, we will find Him.

[mkprr]

Maybe I can start by answering

“would you say that Mormons consider the basic Bible to be flawed, or just incomplete?”

In short, what we have is accurate, but it isn’t complete. See 1 Nephi 13:29. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne ... ang=eng#28
A lot of people seem to feel that believing the Book of Mormon then, would discredit the Bible. I think this is incorrect. The Book of Mormon claims to have been written long before our oldest existing Old testament transcripts and it was translated into English by the spiritual gift of interpretation of tongues. When it quotes from the Old testament it is remarkably similar to the KJV Bible showing not only that the Bible transcripts we have are remarkably accurate, but that God approves in general of our modern translations. For a believer in the BoM, this proves the accuracy of the Bible.

One of my favorite things about how the BoM strengthens the Bible is that it proves that Isaiah was in fact written by the original Isaiah. The Nephite prophets left Jerusalem around 600 AD, but they already at that time had the parts of Isaiah that some are now claiming was written long after that by a second Isaiah.

So we have a lot of reasons to believe very strongly that the Bible is inspired, and that what we have of it today is accurate. We do believe though that there are parts missing from the Bible, and that because God isn’t done dealing with man, there would be no reason to close the canon of scripture even if we had each Book of the Bible in its complete original form.

[mkprr]

To answer KyleB and Steve without attempting here to debate over whether “Mormon scriptures and prophets are inspired/accurate/etc.,” here are a few things that I find important to me on a daily basis that I think wouldn't be clear to me if I wasn’t LDS.

Some of these are taught pretty clearly in the Bible and by Steve Gregg actually, but from what I can see, they aren’t taught in very many Christian circles for some reason. The first time I heard TNP I thought Steve was raised LDS. That idea was quickly corrected after listening to a few episodes


Our Salvation depends on us striving to keep the commandments as well as having faith Mosiah 4:6-10.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosi ... lang=eng#5

Man is free to choose, and man is therefore responsible for his own actions 2 Nephi 2:27-30 http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne ... ang=eng#26 Also, for more on salvation read verses 1-9 in this same chapter.

Though salvation in the strictest sense is only for those who have faith and repent, hell won’t last forever and for most there is a place of glory and peace prepared D&C76.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testam ... 6?lang=eng

Those who die without the knowledge of the gospel, who would have received it, have a full hope of the salvation reserved for the failthful spoken of in the chapter I previously cited. D&C137
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testam ... 7?lang=eng

That God won’t stop speaking or doing miracles in his church as long as they will listen. Moroni 10:24, http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro ... ang=eng#23
and 2nd Nephi 29:8-9.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne ... lang=eng#7

We can be filled with the love of Christ by praying for it diligently Moroni 7:47-48
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/moro ... ang=eng#46


So there is a lot more but that’s enough for now I think.

[mkprr]

Jesusrules777. That sounds like an awesome meeting, I would have loved to have been there.

[jriccitelli]

I wanted to wait for you to respond to the very good questions made here Mkp;
But the hair on my neck stood up when you mentioned Del Tondo's book 'Jesus words only', I was wondering how you came across it. I was given this book by some Mormons and it resulted in my desire to write a rebuttal to it, as this became personal. I have not finished sorting through a debate I had over the book.
The blog I was putting together ( http://douglasdeltondo.blogspot.com ) came from a long series of emails I had in debating Douglas's book with two brothers, both of whom were Mormons at one time, until I started sharing with them the Bible (and I might add the Materials provided by Lighthouse ministries in Salt Lake City). One brother who 'had' seemed for awhile to be a believer in Gods Word (for over ten years), now was being persuaded by his brother to read this book by Del Tondo. One brother became heavily influenced by Del Tondo, and the other brother began to lose faith and respect for 'everything' in the Bible because of his brothers arguments.

I 'truly' love these two brothers so I am saddened by this series of events. This caused me to examine Del Tondo's book and study his arguments. Del Tondo's premise is wrong and everything else in the book is an attempt to fabricate a hypothesis to demonize Paul as the origin if the salvation by Grace Theory.

"The arguments Del Tondo made are not new but are packaged in a unique rhetoric that is built upon two (or three or more) fallacious statements, and builds from there. Someone with previous misconceptions could easily fall into the trap - particularly the trap of legalism - if they have not understood that; 'all' of us have sinned, and that we need forgiveness for 'all' of our sins (We begin to veer of into legalism when we lose the daily personal conviction of the Holy Spirit, awareness of our own sin nature and the daily need of Jesus for our help, etc.). I have read Del Tondo's book and I see a number of very large leaps in illogic to reach Del Tondo's conclusions. I am sorting the arguments into a more systematic order than the email debate produced, and yet I am still debating the brothers, and so this blog is still under construction."
(From my blog on 'Jesus words only')

[jriccitelli]

This sounds great Mkprr;
"Ask if they are interested in hearing why you believe in Christ, and then SHARE YOUR REASONS FOR BELIEVING WITH THEM"

(I like this idea too, yet unfortunately with any deviation the contrast and differences need to be addressed also, as even Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism have some good points also. As I have said; if you think you can save yourself, ultimately 'on your own' good works then it does not matter what religion you belong to, for 'all' religions are based on a works salvation, the 'only' real exception is trusting in Christ alone)

The following was a great line Mkprr; 'After hearing TNP radio show I found out that you guys have close relationships with the Savior too, and you aren’t just a bunch of angry loons' (from June 15)

(After becoming Christian myself, I too have found that some of the hardest hearted - narrow minded - most uninformed people I have met are 'christians'. Whether they 'really' do know Jesus as their Lord is another long topic. Some 'obviously' are not (the KuKluxKlan) and some are questionable. My only answer is that even the mean and stupid can make a correct decision once in awhile, and is not that what the Gospel really is about, Sinners, all of us given a chance to respond to grace. The bad and the ugly saved by Grace - as was Israel - unto good works, but for some I wonder when the changes, if ever, are going to start happening. I suppose some of the seed falls on good soil, some on bad, never taking root, drying up and withering away yet still proclaiming they are 'christian'. I also believe we always have a free will to respond to Gods loving Grace, some do, and some 'almost' do)

[jriccitelli]

You made another very good point Mkp (from June 15), and this is something I have became painfully aware of quite a few times;

'Also, for those who do end up losing their faith in the church, unless they are really shown good reasons to still believe in Christ, they often end up throwing their faith in God out as well. I know far more agnostic/atheist ex-mormons than I do Christian ex-mormons which is not good in IMO'

I studied Mormonism 'extensively', and I became really good at convincing (some) people about the truth of Joseph Smith and the doctrines of the LDS Church, and to my surprise some expressed not only relief (from the legalism) but they also often expressed a yearning to 'try' other religions, I mean 'any' kind of religion.

My experience is that; after giving up on Mormonism a person will 'now' find it necessary to put their trust in Jesus 'alone' for the forgiveness of 'all' their sins. This proves to me that the real Mormon was not trusting Jesus alone for their salvation.

Generally a 'new decision' becomes very apparent to the person who gives up on Mormonism, they become aware that they must trust in Jesus Christ (alone) as their Savior, no buts, no ifs, the forgiveness of all their own sins, sins past, present, and future.
This last one seems to effect a lot of people, a Mormon will claim they are trusting Jesus as their savior, but Jesus is more like a gate or door, you go past him and now you are advancing on your own, like he did, and his father did before him. You are becoming more and more like him, but you are secretly becoming your own god, a god yourself, like Jesus did.

Generally there are four scenarios;
After giving up on Mormonism a person will either;
1; Walk away from both God and Mormonism.
2; Think that they had already put all their trust in God and His Son as a Mormon, and believe that is what being a Mormon means, and so continue to be Mormon.
3. 'Continue' to have all their trust in God, and it is possible, if they really did trust in God alone, as this is how I was (despite what I believe trusting in Mormon theology 'leads to).
4: 'Now find it necessary' to put their trust in God - and in His Son (for the forgiveness of all their sins proves that the real Mormon is not trusting Jesus for their salvation).

Last night I had a family friend ask "What is the 'one' difference between Catholicism and other Christians?" I answered, "The Pope", "Just one man?" he answered, I said "That’s just 'one' man too many between you and God"

Who are we really trusting, Joseph, the Pope, ourselves?
There is now 'no' mediator between man and God 'only Christ'.

[mkprr]

“But the hair on my neck stood up when you mentioned Del Tondo's book 'Jesus words only', I was wondering how you came across it.”

Actually, I had never heard that there were any Christians who deny the inspiration of the writings of Paul until I was listening to Steve’s lectures on the authority of scripture. I have since googled it to see what their contentions are and I of course agree that Del Tondo and the like are very much mistaken. I likewise feel that Christians in general are mistaken when they deny that Joseph Smith is a prophet.
I haven’t had time to read your blog yet but look forward to it. I think it’s great that he accepts Jesus’ own words but it is unfortunate that he denies Paul’s teachings which are inspired by Jesus Christ.