The Epistles

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Allyn
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The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:10 pm

The Epistles

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Beginning with the book of 1st Thessalonians, I now enter into a different section of scriptures. I am now going to deal chronologically with passages that were written anywhere from about 52AD to perhaps at late as 66-67AD. As these letters get closer and closer to 70AD, or the end of that generation, you will see how scripture begins to have an even more imminent feel to it. I will be commenting on some of the epistle scriptures, and others I will simply list in order to show the overwhelming belief that they knew the second coming of Christ was imminent.

This presentation on the Epistles will begin with 1 Thess.

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Allyn
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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:13 pm

THE BOOK OF 1st THESSALONIANS

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(written 52 AD+/-)

(1 Thessalonians 1:9-10) 9 For they themselves report about us what kind of a reception we had with you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

(1 Thessalonians 2:19) 19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?

(1 Thessalonians 3:13) so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul assures these first century Thessalonians, just as Christ had assured his disciples, that some of them would be alive at the second coming of Christ. Now, lets look at verse 16 specifically

(1 Thessalonians 4:16) 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Let's compare that with the Olivet Discourse

(Mat 24:31 NASB) "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Unless there are multiple trumpet comings, these verses are speaking of the same eventthe gathering of the elect at the second coming of Christ. We have already established that Matthew 24:31 is in regards to the destruction of Israel, and that it would happen in the lifetime of the disciples. Paul is simply validating to the Thessalonians what Christ first voiced to the original Apostles years earlier.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-11) 1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

(1 Thessalonians 5:23) 23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:35 am

THE BOOK OF 2nd THESSALONIANS

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(written 53 AD+/-)

(2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

In this passage we see several things(1) Relief for believers, (2) punishment for those causing affliction, (3) Christ's second coming with angels, and (4) Judgment. Paul says that these believers will experience relief when Christ is revealed. If Christ still hasn't returned then what good is this promised relief to the first century Thessalonians? Also, compare this verse to Matthew 16:27-28

(Matthew 16:27-28) 27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. 28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

In both verses you see Christ coming with angels to repay people. These are obviously speaking of the same thing, and that is the second coming of Jesus Christ. In Matthew 16:27-28 when did Jesus say this coming would be? It would be in the lifetime of at least some of the disciples (verse 28). That is why Paul can speak confidently to the Thessalonians that this coming was ever nearer and would provide their blessed relief.

(2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

When you read this particular passage there are two main things to keep in mind. FIRST, why in the world would Paul take the time to tell first century believers details about all the things that first must happen in the world before the second coming of Christ if that second coming was nowhere near, and the events he was talking about didn't impact them at all? It would have no relevance at all to the Thessalonians. Paul is not addressing these signs of the times to the Thessalonian believers so that we in the year 2008+ can be on guard. No, he's reminding the people who would see them so that they would not miss them (verse 5). And why? Because Christ himself had said he would come in their generation. SECONDLY, Paul never corrects their understanding of the nature "day of the Lord". He only corrects their timing. Today, in the minds of most professing Christians, we think that the "Day of the Lord" will be a world-wide earth burning, cataclysmic experience. If that is true, and the Thessalonians had the same understanding of the nature of that day as we do, how could the Thessalonians have thought they missed it? Paul could have written to them and said, "Hello! Look around outside you the earth is still here!" The reason they thought they might have missed it is because they had a different view of the nature of that day. They weren't looking for an earth burning experience. They were looking for something completely different. This is often overlooked by people today.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by TK » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 am

allyn wrote:
why in the world would Paul take the time to tell first century believers details about all the things that first must happen in the world before the second coming of Christ if that second coming was nowhere near, and the events he was talking about didn't impact them at all?
my answer: because Paul didnt know for certain and perhaps assumed wrongly that his return was right around the corner.

TK

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:20 am

TK wrote:allyn wrote:
why in the world would Paul take the time to tell first century believers details about all the things that first must happen in the world before the second coming of Christ if that second coming was nowhere near, and the events he was talking about didn't impact them at all?
my answer: because Paul didnt know for certain and perhaps assumed wrongly that his return was right around the corner.

TK
And what indication do you have that Paul is seperating the inspired from the uninspired parts? TK, you have responded only to a rhetorical question but nothing concerning the text itself. But at least you are reading the post.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by TK » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:12 am

Allyn wrote:
TK wrote:allyn wrote:
why in the world would Paul take the time to tell first century believers details about all the things that first must happen in the world before the second coming of Christ if that second coming was nowhere near, and the events he was talking about didn't impact them at all?
my answer: because Paul didnt know for certain and perhaps assumed wrongly that his return was right around the corner.

TK
And what indication do you have that Paul is seperating the inspired from the uninspired parts? TK, you have responded only to a rhetorical question but nothing concerning the text itself. But at least you are reading the post.
1. The Thessalonians were under the mistaken belief that Christ had already come back, or in the alternative was very very near at hand.
2. To counter this, Paul reminds them of things that must happen before He returns. Since those things have not happened, Christ had not yet returned.
3. The purpose of this admonition was to prevent the shipwreck of the Thessalonian's faith when Christ did not, in fact, return very soon.

I just read it differently- you read it as a teaching about something that is very soon to take place, and I read it as a "calm down, don't get so excited" teaching.

Allyn wrote:
Today, in the minds of most professing Christians, we think that the "Day of the Lord" will be a world-wide earth burning, cataclysmic experience. If that is true, and the Thessalonians had the same understanding of the nature of that day as we do, how could the Thessalonians have thought they missed it?
because they were being deceived by false teachers. It WILL be an earth burning , cataclysmic experience, but they were deceived into forgetting that part.

TK

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:06 pm

TK, hello,

I think you must be ignoring the first two underlined parts of my 2 Thess. posting. :roll: Nevertheless, I will keep on presenting my arguement.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:09 pm

The Book of Galatians
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(written 55-56 AD+/-)


(Galatians 1:3-5) 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be the glory forevermore. Amen.

That present evil age was the only one referred to as coming to an end shortly. These people were the ones living in it since it was presently with them. This dovetails with the question the disciples had for Jesus as to when that age was going to end and in the recorded account by Luke we find it would be known when they say the armies surround Jerusalem.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:14 pm

The Book of 1st Corinthians

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(written 57 AD+/-)

(1 Corinthians 1:7-8) 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(1 Corinthians 2:6) 6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

(1 Corinthians 15:51-55) 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

This verse screams first century fulfillment. Paul says, "we will not all sleep". If you were in Corinth, and you were the original intended audience for this letter, what would you have understood that to mean? You would have obviously understood it to mean that the second coming would happen before all of the people living at that time had diedperhaps even you! Why? Because that's exactly what Paul is saying. Compare the above verse to 1st Thessalonians 4:15-16

(1st Thessalonians 4:15-16) 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

They are conveying the exact same thought. Paul is telling first century believers in both Corinth and Thessalonica that they will not all die before the second coming. They use almost identical wording about some living and some dying, and the trumpet, etc. How can Paul be so confident that first century believers will not all die before Christ's second coming unless he believed Christ's coming would be in "this generation" and before all the disciples had died?

In regards to the above passage, compare verse 52 to the following other two passages.

(1 Corinthians 5:52) 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

(1 Thessalonians 4:16) 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

(Mat 24:31 NASB) "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Again, all three passages are speaking of the same event. The second coming of Christ. In the Corinthian and Thessalonian passages Paul is telling those believers they would see it. Why? Because in the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:31) Christ said all of this would happen in "this generation". When you begin to line up all these scriptures the evidence becomes almost overwhelming that the second coming of Christ was expected and fulfilled in that first century.

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Re: The Epistles

Post by Allyn » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:15 pm

The Book of 2nd Corinthians

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(written 57 AD+/-)

(2 Corinthians 1:13-14) 13 For we write nothing else to you than what you read and understand, and I hope you will understand until the end; 14 just as you also partially did understand us, that we are your reason to be proud as you also are ours, in the day of our Lord Jesus.

(2 Corinthians 5:10) 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Compare 2 Corinthians 5:10 to Daniel 12:2, Matthew 16:27-28

(Daniel 12:2) 2 "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

(Matthew 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you (the disciples), there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

They are speaking of the judgment that accompanies the second coming of Christ that was imminent to that first century generation of people.

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