Salvation: 1 The Formula

[Jon]

It's pretty basic -

Jesus gives us the ability to be saved from original sin by his death on the cross. This is the only way to Heaven. But, you can lose your salvation after you accept Jesus by committing sin. So, YES you need to work for your salvation, but you have to do it after you accept Jesus.

Paidon, what did you mean by "everyone is salted by fire"? Sounds like purgatory to me!

Once saved always saved is false. Works are required for salvation but only if you commit sin after accepting Jesus as your savior. You can get to Heaven without works but most of us screw it up and have to work for it anyway.

[kenblogton]

Reply to Jon

It's pretty basic -
Jesus gives us the ability to be saved from original sin by his death on the cross. This is the only way to Heaven. But, you can lose your salvation after you accept Jesus by committing sin. So, YES you need to work for your salvation, but you have to do it after you accept Jesus.
You don't lose your salvation when you sin unless you fail to repent.
Accepting Jesus is not essential to salvation, otherwise no one in the Old Testament would have been saved from hell to heaven. The essentials for salvation from Adam to the present is admit your sinfulness and repent (See Ezekiel 18). Jesus opened heaven for all (John 3:13). Jesus mentions some Old Testament faith heroes who would be saved in Luke 13:28-29 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God."

Once saved always saved is false. Works are required for salvation but only if you commit sin after accepting Jesus as your savior. You can get to Heaven without works but most of us screw it up and have to work for it anyway.
As I alluded to in my last posting, everyone screws up without the Holy Spirit inspiring them and their own ongoing repentance. No one can do good in their own strength alone!
kenblogton

[robbyyoung]

The Book of Revelations gives us some amazing facts about some inherent conditions of man. Note the following:

Condition 1. Some were put into the Book of Life before the foundation of the world - Rev. 13:8
Condition 2. Some were never in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world - Rev. 17:8
Condition 3. Those who meet "Condition 1" can have there name removed indicating loss of salvation - Rev. 3:5

So here's the obvious concern - Can those in "Condition 2" ever get their name into The Book of Life? If so, provide the scripture references which doesn't contradict "Condition 2". God only references removal from The Book of Life, there are no additions. Hence, all the names that will ever be there are present but can be removed.

God Bless!

[Jon]

Reply to Jon

It's pretty basic -
Jesus gives us the ability to be saved from original sin by his death on the cross. This is the only way to Heaven. But, you can lose your salvation after you accept Jesus by committing sin. So, YES you need to work for your salvation, but you have to do it after you accept Jesus.
You don't lose your salvation when you sin unless you fail to repent.
Accepting Jesus is not essential to salvation, otherwise no one in the Old Testament would have been saved from hell to heaven. The essentials for salvation from Adam to the present is admit your sinfulness and repent (See Ezekiel 18). Jesus opened heaven for all (John 3:13). Jesus mentions some Old Testament faith heroes who would be saved in Luke 13:28-29 "There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God."

Once saved always saved is false. Works are required for salvation but only if you commit sin after accepting Jesus as your savior. You can get to Heaven without works but most of us screw it up and have to work for it anyway.
As I alluded to in my last posting, everyone screws up without the Holy Spirit inspiring them and their own ongoing repentance. No one can do good in their own strength alone!
kenblogton

Sounds like you're saying the same thing I am and we agree. You can lose your salvation, and you have to "work" for it with repentance. I thought this was only a Catholic viewpoint. Are you Catholic? If not, what? Maybe, then, the only difference we may have is *how* to repent. Of course I would say that repentance is a work done through confession and penance. What do you say?

Jon

[Homer]

Jon,

You wrote:

Of course I would say that repentance is a work done through confession and penance. What do you say?

Where did the Roman church get the idea of penance? Is there scriptural precedent or command? Is it a kind of "paying for" your sins or like giving roses to your wife when you have offended her?

[Paidion]

Paidon, what did you mean by "everyone is salted by fire"? Sounds like purgatory to me!

I am not the source of these words. It is Jesus who said them. You need to ask Him what He meant.

For everyone will be salted with fire. (Mark 9:49)

It can't be a reference to purgatory, since not everyone goes to purgatory.

If you are asking my opinion concerning what Jesus meant, I suggest first that salt is a purifying agent that kills bacteria, etc. The same with fire.
So I suggest that people are either purified in this life by the fire of God, or are purified post-mortem in Hell.

I would say that Hell is one big purgatory, and that sooner or later all who go there will repent (have a change of heart and mind), submit to the authority of Christ, and be purged from their sin. This was one of the views in the early church as per Origen and others. But Jerome and Augustine wanted to retain this view as well as introduce their own view of everlasting torment in Hell, so they invented a purgatory where people were cleansed from their sin—people who are not good enough to go to heaven and not bad enough to go to Hell. In this way, they could keep the historic teaching and yet introduce their own with the claim that both were true.

[kenblogton]

Reply to Jon
Sounds like you're saying the same thing I am and we agree. You can lose your salvation, and you have to "work" for it with repentance. I thought this was only a Catholic viewpoint. Are you Catholic? If not, what? Maybe, then, the only difference we may have is *how* to repent. Of course I would say that repentance is a work done through confession and penance. What do you say?
I was a Roman Catholic for 10 years. Now I'm a believer. Repentance and penance are different. Penance is defined as "something that you do or are given to do in order to show that you are sad or sorry about doing something wrong" This is remorse, not repentance. Repentance is becoming a different kind of person; one who is turning away from their sinful behaviour through Holy Spirit inspiration.
kenblogton

[Jon]

Reply to Jon
Sounds like you're saying the same thing I am and we agree. You can lose your salvation, and you have to "work" for it with repentance. I thought this was only a Catholic viewpoint. Are you Catholic? If not, what? Maybe, then, the only difference we may have is *how* to repent. Of course I would say that repentance is a work done through confession and penance. What do you say?
I was a Roman Catholic for 10 years. Now I'm a believer. Repentance and penance are different. Penance is defined as "something that you do or are given to do in order to show that you are sad or sorry about doing something wrong" This is remorse, not repentance. Repentance is becoming a different kind of person; one who is turning away from their sinful behaviour through Holy Spirit inspiration.
kenblogton

Very sad to hear that you left the Church. You can still come back. It's never too late.

[Jon]

Paidon, what did you mean by "everyone is salted by fire"? Sounds like purgatory to me!

I am not the source of these words. It is Jesus who said them. You need to ask Him what He meant.

For everyone will be salted with fire. (Mark 9:49)

It can't be a reference to purgatory, since not everyone goes to purgatory.

If you are asking my opinion concerning what Jesus meant, I suggest first that salt is a purifying agent that kills bacteria, etc. The same with fire.
So I suggest that people are either purified in this life by the fire of God, or are purified post-mortem in Hell.

I would say that Hell is one big purgatory, and that sooner or later all who go there will repent (have a change of heart and mind), submit to the authority of Christ, and be purged from their sin. This was one of the views in the early church as per Origen and others. But Jerome and Augustine wanted to retain this view as well as introduce their own view of everlasting torment in Hell, so they invented a purgatory where people were cleansed from their sin—people who are not good enough to go to heaven and not bad enough to go to Hell. In this way, they could keep the historic teaching and yet introduce their own with the claim that both were true.

Good point not everyone goes to Purgatory. He must have meant something else.

Your comments about Hell not being eternal but temporary - where does that idea come from?

[kenblogton]

Reply to Jon
Very sad to hear that you left the Church. You can still come back. It's never too late.
Don't be sorry: when I left the Church, I found God and salvation. Salvation is in God, not in the Church. I describe the highlights of my journey in The Journey section in my blog The Narrow Road.
kenblogton