1 Cor 13 and the gifts of the Spirit.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:52 pm

I believe that the gift of tongues is for today. I do not believe that the scripture teaches they vanished when the Apostles died.
While speaking with a brother on this subject, he brought up the verse in 1 Cor 13 that says "when that which is perfect comes, that which was in part will be done away with" .

I don't think that these versus prove the point he was trying to convey, what are some of you guys/girls thoughts? God bless.

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:33 pm

Ask your friend if knowledge has also been done away with!

The first thing one must bear in mind is that the text states that prophecy, tongues and knowledge will be eliminated when they are no longer necessary. And when is that? When "that which is perfect" comes. And what is that perfect thing? The entire chapter is about love. When our love for others is incomplete, we rely on God's gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge in order to know something about others so that we can help them with their weaknesses or other problems which they do not admit.

Verse 9 states that "we know partially and prophecy partially". Through the gift of knowledge we know some things about a person, but not everything. We may prophesy a few things revealed about a person, but not everything.

"When the complete comes the partial will be done away."

When we know others through complete love, we will no longer need the gift of knowledge, or prophecy, or tongues in order to know a person.

Now we understand other people only partially and distortedly like a person looking into a mirror (they had very poor mirrors in the first century, not like a modern mirror which produces a perfect image). But in the day when we love completely, we will know others fully even as God, who has complete love for us knows us fully.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:33 pm

Paidion wrote:Ask your friend if knowledge has also been done away with!

The first thing one must bear in mind is that the text states that prophecy, tongues and knowledge will be eliminated when they are no longer necessary. And when is that? When "that which is perfect" comes. And what is that perfect thing? The entire chapter is about love. When our love for others is incomplete, we rely on God's gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge in order to know something about others so that we can help them with their weaknesses or other problems which they do not admit.

Verse 9 states that "we know partially and prophecy partially". Through the gift of knowledge we know some things about a person, but not everything. We may prophesy a few things revealed about a person, but not everything.

"When the complete comes the partial will be done away."

When we know others through complete love, we will no longer need the gift of knowledge, or prophecy, or tongues in order to know a person.

Now we understand other people only partially and distortedly like a person looking into a mirror (they had very poor mirrors in the first century, not like a modern mirror which produces a perfect image). But in the day when we love completely, we will know others fully even as God, who has complete love for us knows us fully.

Paidion,

That is the best explanation I have ever heard of those verses. Thanks so much.

Todd

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:48 pm

Thanks Paidion. I may disagree with you on the some other subjects, but that was a very good explaination of the text.

On another note, has anyone ever told you that you look like Santa Claus?

Post by **_Homer** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:52 am

The subject passage informs us that after that which is perfect (complete) is come, faith, hope, and love will remain. If this time is after Jesus' return for his church, could you explain what need we will have for faith and hope as they are biblically defined? Won't we be walking by sight rather than faith? And what will be be hoping for, something better? I have never heard of a good explanation for this.

Post by **_Anonymous** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:54 am

Hi Homer,

You said:

The subject passage informs us that after that which is perfect (complete) is come, faith, hope, and love will remain. If this time is after Jesus' return for his church, could you explain what need we will have for faith and hope as they are biblically defined? Won't we be walking by sight rather than faith? And what will be be hoping for, something better? I have never heard of a good explanation for this.

Why do you interpret it to say that after that which is perfect (complete) is come, faith, hope and love will remain. It seems to me to say that NOW these things abide. I don't see where it says what will happen to these three when that which is perfect is come.

12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Post by **_Homer** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:17 am

Hi Michelle,

Paul informed the Corinthians (v.8) that gifts of tongues, prophecies, and knowledge are temporary and that faith, hope, and love will abide (remain). The question is what time periods is he referring to? Paul says in Romans 8:24 "For we are saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?" Also Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things
not seen". This does not seem to fit well into a description of our eternal state after Jesus' return.

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:00 pm

On another note, has anyone ever told you that you look like Santa Claus?

Yes, dozens of times, usually at the time of the festive season.
I usually reply, "No. I'm not Santa Claus. I'm his son."

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:05 pm

Homer, in the past I have always heard it explained that "that which is perfect" is our Lord Jesus, and that this refers to the state of affairs after He has come. But now I think it refers to "perfect love".

Do you suppose that there is any possibility that perfect love could come into the Body of Christ before the return of Jesus?

Post by **_Christopher** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:12 pm

Paidion wrote:

Do you suppose that there is any possibility that perfect love could come into the Body of Christ before the return of Jesus

Could that be predicted here?

Eph 4:11-14
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
NKJV

I'm holding out hope that you are right Paidion. One can dream...can't he?