Back ground checks for childcare servants!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:57 am

Thanks for the input TK... I hope no one takes me the wrong way, I'm concerned with all the kids in my congregation. I'm wonder how many people who harm children can actually be detected through a background check? I haven't studied the statistics on this. It is always a surprise, like you said, "we can't believe it. He was a great guy." They can't believe it because he's never been caught, and doesn't have a record.

I appreciate the feedback and all the dialogue on this forum y'all provide. I've learned a lot over the years by reading through the posts. I guess it's just my "rebellious" spirit

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Singalphile · Post by **Singalphile** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:11 pm

I'm with you somewhat, but I wouldn't make anything of it. If it's the cheapest and easiest way to help keep out the bad guys (and/or prevent frivolous lawsuits), then so be it. Not ideal perhaps, but it is what it is. I get it. You get it. We all get it.

There's a mega-church near me. It's a church, but it's also a large business. They have full-time, salaried employees of all sorts (currently looking for a kids church coordinator, an office assistant, an intake/case management specialist, a production artist, and some part-time positions too). As for non-staff, I doubt that the leadership knows even 1% of the regular attendees' names. I suppose it's a nice place to work (or volunteer), but it is still just a place to work, and that means background/drug checks, lawyers, tax forms, employee reviews, sick leave, vacation days, time sheets, and so on.

Your congregation isn't nearly so large, I see. Do the pastors know who you are?

backwoodsman · Post by **backwoodsman** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:51 pm

Clint wrote:What bothers me is a church relying on a outside agency to tell our leadership if their members are qualified to serve, instead of taking the time to get to know the members, and prayerfully considering those who would potentially serve in this capacity.

Kinda makes one wonder if it's really more of a social club than a church in any kind of Biblical sense, doesn't it?

I've never been in your situation, maybe because I've spent very little time in large impersonal churches. But I think it would make me wonder if it weren't time to find some fellowship where spiritual things take precedence over the organization, rather than the other way around.

SteveF · Post by **SteveF** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:15 pm

Clint,

I used to attend a church significantly smaller than yours. One of the elders (who had served for more than 25 years as an elder) had a 16 year old son who was great with kids. So good, that he served as a personal baby sitter for the pastor’s kids.

One day during an adult bible study in the elder’s home he was taking care of a few kids. During that time he took a 3 year old girl into the bathroom and masturbated in front of her.

This person now has their name on file with the police and it would show up if he volunteered to work with kids.

As I’m sure you’re aware, pedophiles often seek positions that work with kids. I think it’s important that churches send the message that they are serious about protecting kids (and a good program is also set up to protect adults from false accusations). If I were visiting your church and knew some people in the kids program refused to do a police background check I would never leave my kids unattended in any children’s program.

Steve

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:59 pm

Thanks for the reply, Singalphile. You said, " not ideal perhaps, but it is what it is. I get it. You get it. We all get it." Ha, that's a good way to summit up! And yes, the pastors have known me for about 15 years. Also, they have seen me raise my family.

Hey backwoodsman, The phrase "social club "does come to mind, and I've use that to describe my church over the years. That's well put, I would like "spiritual things to take precedent over the organization." This is definitely not the only issue, is just one of many… Though this one may not be as significant as some of the other issues that we face in American evangelicalism. This is just the first time my church is done this, and it's been open 10 years. Actually, my church is a second "campus," from another church that's larger, and it's been around for 30 years.

Hey SteveF, this is a serious issue, and I do hate the terrible example you provided me. I guess you just never know the person. Even if they had a background check at the church where the pastors kid did what he did, I wonder if the pastor's family would've been exempt. I know that there are certain people at our church that would possibly be exempt, because they grew up in my church. I'm only speculating.

I guess the question I have is, if they suspect somebody, can't they just do a background check on that particular individual without their permission? Or, you can just investigate the person. Like I previously stated, and with the example that SteveF gave, no background check would've caught that. Unfortunately, human seem to be capable of horrible things.

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robbyyoung · Post by **robbyyoung** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:31 am

Clint wrote:Hello all!

The leadership asked us (childcare 'servants')to fill out a form and provide our Social security numbers, so they can run background checks on us. I understand that they want to keep children safe, but this doesn't sit right with me. I do not have anything to hide, but I thought saying no just to see if they what they would do. I mean, didn't they prayerfully consider everyone in these roles? We go to a nondenominational church that has about 250-300 people. So, it's not that large of a congregation in my opinion. Background checks on the body of Christ? I don't know, maybe I'm reading to much into it. Any thoughts?

Hello Clint,

Although “trust, but verify” may be disconcerting to some believers, God has established precedence to the validity of inquiring about a person’s background through “Good Reporting”.

The Greek word “martyreō” is defined as: to be a witness, i.e. testify (literally or figuratively): —charge, give (evidence), bear record, have (obtain, of) good (honest) report, be well reported of, testify, give (have) testimony, (be, bear, give, obtain) witness.

Martyreō and Background Checks have something in common, and that’s to mitigate risks. The Bible depicts an ancient method of what we call a “background check” in order to verify someone’s claim, reputation, and ability to serve. I will briefly list a couple examples.

1 Tim 3:1-7, we are all familiar with the Bishop qualifications but let’s focus on v.7. Who’s making the inquiry? Who’s doing the investigation? Furthermore, unbelievers are responsible for providing this information.

And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Acts 10:21-23 accounts for Cornelius’ favor among believers. Focusing on v.22, an investigation/inquiry produced the results.

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Background Checks can validate your claim, reputation, and favor among men. 1st century believers conducted investigations and inquiries; therefore, I see no reason to think it strange to validate someone's claim in our day. However, I think it would be fair to ask for specificity regarding background checks, i.e., is it for criminal, financial, work history, etc.. in order to focus on the relevancy of the inquiry. In your specific case, Childcare should absolutely involve a "good report" through a criminal background inquiry, but a credit report request might be inappropriate.

God Bless.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:01 pm

Hey Robbyyoung,

Thank you for your response as well as biblical support evidence for inquiring and investigating. To be honest, I didn't think about this, but I should have. I don't think there's anything wrong with checking people out and making sure they're qualified for a particular servants role. Doing so is wise.

I guess what "ruffled my feathers" (though I'm not angry about it) is the leadership at this church has known me for about 15 years. They've trusted me to lead bible studies now and in the past, and they all know my testimony. And, now I have to give them my social security number. I would understand doing so if I was a new member who they didn't know.

Nevertheless, I'm going submit to it. I do not have anything to hide.

That's why I brought it up here, on this form. If I would ask people around here (at my church), I would not have received thorough, objective answers such as y'all have provided. i'm sure the leadership would've provided a good enough answer, but I know on this form I may get different perspectives that I would not normally get in my church. What's great is that though we may have differing views, we all care about the safety and future of our children.

God bless y'all!
(Yes, I'm from the south in case y'all didn't notice

)

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morbo3000 · Post by **morbo3000** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:30 pm

I don't think you need to give social security number. Look into that. My wife and I have both had background checks for work. I'm an educator. And I've never given my social security number. Prints and drivers license is what is necessary there.

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Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:26 pm

Hey morbo3000... I checked, and I stand corrected. My social security number is not required. Just my drivers license. Thanks again for the reply.

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TK · Post by TK » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:50 pm

It is absolutely true that very few abusers are screened in background checks.

In fact, it is almost always true that an abuser is caught breaking rules, if he is caught beforehand

There are 5 cardinal "no's" that should apply to any organization that works with kids:

1) No inappropriate touch, including lap-sitting, tickling, wrestling, face to face hugs
2) No being alone with a child, ever
3) no favoritism
4) no inappropriate speech
5) no outside contact via social media or otherwise

Rules protect children and workers from false accusation.

The Narrow Path Ministries