Some claim that "αιωνιος" (aiōnios) means "eternal" just as "αιδιος" does.
This I disbelieve (though many translators so render it).
For example in 2 Tim 1:9, in the expression "προ χρονων αιωνιων" (pro xronōn aiōnōn) the word should NOT be translated as "eternal".
Indeed, the multifarious rendering of this passage by various translators is astonishing! Their translations of the expression are given in red. Why the variety of translations? What do you think? Later, I will offer what I believe to be a correct translation of the expression
Consider the following:
Who has saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. (AKJV)
who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal. (ASV)
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. (AV)
Who gave us salvation, marking us out for his purpose, not on account of our works, but in the measure of his purpose and his grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before times eternal. (BBE)
who has saved us, and has called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages of time. (Darby)
of the one having saved us and having called with a calling holy, not according to the works of us, but according to own purpose and favor that having been given to us in Anointed Jesus before times age-lasting. (Diaglot)
Who hath delivered us and called us by his holy calling, not according to our own works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the world: (Douay)
who having saved us, and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time itself, (EMTV)
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, (ESV)
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. (HCSB)
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the ages, (JB2000)
who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, — not on account of our works; but on account of his own purpose and favor, which was given us through Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages, (LO)
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, (NAS95)
who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (NIV)
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began (NKJV)
who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not in virtue of our works but in virtue of his own purpose and the grace which he gave us in Christ Jesus ages ago, (RSV)
who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace. This grace was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, (NRSV)
Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began; (Webster)
For He saved us and called us with a holy call, not in accordance with our desserts, but in accordance with His own purpose and the free grace which He bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before the commencement of the Ages, (Wey)
For He saved us and called us with a holy call, not in accordance with anything that we had done, but in accordance with His own purpose and unmerited favor which was shown us through union with Christ Jesus eternal ages ago, (Williams)
who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages, (YLT)
Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
In the above post, I quoted these many "translations" of "προ χρονων αιωνιων" (pro xronōn aiōniōn) in 2 Timothy 1:9 to show the wide variety in the understanding of this expression. I expected some responses, but so far none have been forthcoming.
With all these variations, how can it be so stolidly affirmed that the word "αἰωνιος" (aiōnios) means "eternal"?
To find out what a Greek word means, one should look up the word in many writings. Lexicons can be deceiving. Besides with a dozen of more "definitions" how can you know the primary meaning of the word? I find that the dozens of meanings which lexiconophers (newly coined word) produce are usually possible words that may be placed in translations to make sense. It doesn't really help much to understand the word. I go also by the etymology of the word. I have studied Greek for several years, and my faith in lexicons has been steadily decreasing. I look up the words as they are normally used in the Septuagint (including the apocrypha), and in extra-biblical Greek writings.
The words which have been mistranslated as “eternal punishment” are the Greek words “αἰωνιος κολασις” Let’s consider “κολασις” first. This word was originally used for “prune” as in pruning plants. Plants are pruned by cutting off certain parts so as to correct the growth of the plant. “κολασις” was used in classical Greek in reference to a means to correct an offender. Look at any Greek lexicon, and you will find “correction” is given as one of its meanings.
The word is found only twice in the entire New Testament --- Matthew 25:46 in regards to the goats in Jesus’ parable, and I John 4:18 :
There is no fear in love, but complete love casts out fear. Fear has κολασις. The one who is afraid is not completed in love.
What could the statement “Fear has punishment” possibly mean? I could understand “Punishment has fear”, but not “Fear has punishment”. Do you know of anyone who has been punished because he is afraid?
However, I CAN understand “Fear has correction”. The context of this statement indicates what the correction is. A state of fear in a person can be corrected when that person is completed in love.
Now back to Matthew 25:46 where the goats are to be sent into “αἰωνιος κολασις”. If we agree that “κολασις” means “correction”, then what would “eternal correction” mean? If a person were corrected eternally, the correction would never be completed, and thus the person would not be corrected at all!
Fortunately “αἰωνιος” DOES NOT mean “eternal”. Indeed, it never means “eternal”. It is the adjectival form of the noun “αἰων”, which means “age”. So, I suppose we could translate “αἰωνιος” as “agey”, but as far as I know, the latter is not an English word.
The word was used in koine Greek (the Greek spoken from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D.) to refer to anything which is enduring. The word was used by Diodorus Siculus to describe the stone used to build a wall. The word seems to have been used as meaning “lasting” or “durable”.
Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment. Yet that prison sentence lasted only three years.
But the clincher comes from the Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, written by Chrysostom. He wrote that the kingdom of Satan “is αἰωνιος (agey), in other words it will cease with the present αἰων (age).” So Chrysostum apparently believed that “αἰωνιος” meant exactly the opposite to “eternal”! ---- that is “ lasting” but in this case also “temporary.”
As I see it, the following would be a correct translation of Matthew 25:46
And they [the goats] will go away into lasting correction, but the righteous into lasting life.
Lasting correction is correction which endures. At some point it comes to an end. Lasting life is life which endures. But it just so happens that the lasting life we receive from Christ endures forever. But the idea of "forever" is not inherent in the word “αἰωνιος”.
The true Greek word for "eternal" is "αἰδιος". That word is found in the following verse:
Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. Romans 1:20
With all these variations, how can it be so stolidly affirmed that the word "αἰωνιος" (aiōnios) means "eternal"?
To find out what a Greek word means, one should look up the word in many writings. Lexicons can be deceiving. Besides with a dozen of more "definitions" how can you know the primary meaning of the word? I find that the dozens of meanings which lexiconophers (newly coined word) produce are usually possible words that may be placed in translations to make sense. It doesn't really help much to understand the word. I go also by the etymology of the word. I have studied Greek for several years, and my faith in lexicons has been steadily decreasing. I look up the words as they are normally used in the Septuagint (including the apocrypha), and in extra-biblical Greek writings.
The words which have been mistranslated as “eternal punishment” are the Greek words “αἰωνιος κολασις” Let’s consider “κολασις” first. This word was originally used for “prune” as in pruning plants. Plants are pruned by cutting off certain parts so as to correct the growth of the plant. “κολασις” was used in classical Greek in reference to a means to correct an offender. Look at any Greek lexicon, and you will find “correction” is given as one of its meanings.
The word is found only twice in the entire New Testament --- Matthew 25:46 in regards to the goats in Jesus’ parable, and I John 4:18 :
There is no fear in love, but complete love casts out fear. Fear has κολασις. The one who is afraid is not completed in love.
What could the statement “Fear has punishment” possibly mean? I could understand “Punishment has fear”, but not “Fear has punishment”. Do you know of anyone who has been punished because he is afraid?
However, I CAN understand “Fear has correction”. The context of this statement indicates what the correction is. A state of fear in a person can be corrected when that person is completed in love.
Now back to Matthew 25:46 where the goats are to be sent into “αἰωνιος κολασις”. If we agree that “κολασις” means “correction”, then what would “eternal correction” mean? If a person were corrected eternally, the correction would never be completed, and thus the person would not be corrected at all!
Fortunately “αἰωνιος” DOES NOT mean “eternal”. Indeed, it never means “eternal”. It is the adjectival form of the noun “αἰων”, which means “age”. So, I suppose we could translate “αἰωνιος” as “agey”, but as far as I know, the latter is not an English word.
The word was used in koine Greek (the Greek spoken from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D.) to refer to anything which is enduring. The word was used by Diodorus Siculus to describe the stone used to build a wall. The word seems to have been used as meaning “lasting” or “durable”.
Josephus in “The Wars of the Jews” book 6, states that Jonathan was condemned to “αἰωνιος” imprisonment. Yet that prison sentence lasted only three years.
But the clincher comes from the Homily of the Epistle of Saint Paul to the Ephesians, written by Chrysostom. He wrote that the kingdom of Satan “is αἰωνιος (agey), in other words it will cease with the present αἰων (age).” So Chrysostum apparently believed that “αἰωνιος” meant exactly the opposite to “eternal”! ---- that is “ lasting” but in this case also “temporary.”
As I see it, the following would be a correct translation of Matthew 25:46
And they [the goats] will go away into lasting correction, but the righteous into lasting life.
Lasting correction is correction which endures. At some point it comes to an end. Lasting life is life which endures. But it just so happens that the lasting life we receive from Christ endures forever. But the idea of "forever" is not inherent in the word “αἰωνιος”.
The true Greek word for "eternal" is "αἰδιος". That word is found in the following verse:
Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. Romans 1:20
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Paidion,
Help us understand this:
Matthew 13:27-30
New American Standard Bible
27 And the slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he *said, ‘No; while you are gathering up the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
When those weeds are burned into ashes how long does it take for the agey ashes to become weeds again or do they somehow become wheat? Perhaps this picture of judgement will allow us to correctly understand the parable of the sheep and goats. But for some I doubt it.
Help us understand this:
Matthew 13:27-30
New American Standard Bible
27 And the slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’ 28 And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he *said, ‘No; while you are gathering up the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
When those weeds are burned into ashes how long does it take for the agey ashes to become weeds again or do they somehow become wheat? Perhaps this picture of judgement will allow us to correctly understand the parable of the sheep and goats. But for some I doubt it.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Homer,
How does your question relate to the meaning of the word "aionios"?
How does your question relate to the meaning of the word "aionios"?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Both parables are regarding the final judgement. The fate of the weeds is a picture of the fate of the goats and vice-versa. Can you explain how your version of the fate of the goats corresponds to that of the tares?
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
What makes you think you know my "version" of the fate? And again, how would my "version" relate to the meaning of "aionios"?
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
You have written many times that the fate of the lost is only temporary, that all will wind up saved. You brought up Matthew 25:46 and that the fate of the goats is only temporary because that is the meaning of aionios (you say). I deny that aionios never means eternal. I maintain that the fate of the weeds, burned into ashes, has the same meaning as the fate of the goats. If aionios pertains to the fate of the goats it should equally fit with the weeds thrown into the furnace and help us to see that the meaning of aionios must not be as you claim.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
It never MEANS "eternal", and it never MEANS "temporary".Homer wrote: I deny that aionios never means eternal.
There's no doubt that the word sometimes applies to that which is eternal, and sometimes to that which is temporary.
You don't seem to get it, and so I will repeat the actual meaning of "aionios".
It means "lasting".
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Paidion,
Regarding aionios you wrote:
We have the Greek word aionios and its variations nearly 70 times in the NT. The great majority of those are used regarding our destinies post judgement day. Surely you will not deny that the saved will have eternal life. You say that "lasting" is the correct translation of "aionios". "Eternal" is the Very best word to translate aionios in regard to God, where it can not even imply any end:
Romans 16:26
New American Standard Bible
26 but now has been disclosed, and through the Scriptures of the prophets, in accordance with the commandment of the eternal (aioniou) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
There may be good reasons to think aionios does not mean eternal in specific cases. Words can have a range of meaning. They may be used figuratively such as hyperbole as with Jonah in the whale:
"An hyperbole soars too high or creeps too low; exceeds the truth, things marvelious to shew."
Surely you do not think the ambiguous "lasting" is the best, or even adequate word as an adjective for the future existence of the saved. "Eternal" or "everlasting" are perfectly suited as translations to inform us of what the original authors meant. This, as said, is the great majority of of uses of the word aionios in the scriptures. But it is also used on some occasions to describe the fate of the lost, and importantly in antithetic parallelism. This makes it easy to see why the universalists so desperately try to show the word can not mean what the original authors intended. And why if one searches for information on the meaning of aionios one is confronted with reams and reams of articles by universalists.
It is not a good thing to water down the warnings of our Lord. And by the way I am still waiting to hear your exposition of the parable of the wheat and tares, in particular how the ashes become wheat.
Regarding aionios you wrote:
Perhaps Ignatius needed you to correct him: ".... dies not the temporary death but the aionios death"It never MEANS "eternal", and it never MEANS "temporary".
We have the Greek word aionios and its variations nearly 70 times in the NT. The great majority of those are used regarding our destinies post judgement day. Surely you will not deny that the saved will have eternal life. You say that "lasting" is the correct translation of "aionios". "Eternal" is the Very best word to translate aionios in regard to God, where it can not even imply any end:
Romans 16:26
New American Standard Bible
26 but now has been disclosed, and through the Scriptures of the prophets, in accordance with the commandment of the eternal (aioniou) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
There may be good reasons to think aionios does not mean eternal in specific cases. Words can have a range of meaning. They may be used figuratively such as hyperbole as with Jonah in the whale:
"An hyperbole soars too high or creeps too low; exceeds the truth, things marvelious to shew."
Surely you do not think the ambiguous "lasting" is the best, or even adequate word as an adjective for the future existence of the saved. "Eternal" or "everlasting" are perfectly suited as translations to inform us of what the original authors meant. This, as said, is the great majority of of uses of the word aionios in the scriptures. But it is also used on some occasions to describe the fate of the lost, and importantly in antithetic parallelism. This makes it easy to see why the universalists so desperately try to show the word can not mean what the original authors intended. And why if one searches for information on the meaning of aionios one is confronted with reams and reams of articles by universalists.
It is not a good thing to water down the warnings of our Lord. And by the way I am still waiting to hear your exposition of the parable of the wheat and tares, in particular how the ashes become wheat.
Re: Does "aionios" mean "eternal"?
Hello Homer,
This parable ends with the final judgement(presumably),and goes no further. We must look elsewhere to see if God willed these tares to be wheat instead before or after the last day
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.