Jesus is God

[darinhouston]

John 17:2 - Notice that Jesus was given authority over all flesh EVEN BEFORE He was raised from the dead. - Matthew 28:18

John 17:8 - " ...they (the disciples) ... have known surely that I CAME FORTH FROM (or literally came out of) YOU. The Greek word is "exerchomai" (1831 in the Strong's Concordance), which means "to go or come out of". Jesus literally CAME OUT OF the Father. He says it again in John 8:42 - "I CAME OUT OF God." John 13:3 - He knew He had "come out of" God. John 16:27 - "I came out of the Father." John 16:28 - "I came out of the Father."

John 8:42 is fascinating: " ... for I proceeded forth (came out of - 1831) and came (to have come - 2240 in Strong's) from God." So He literally said: " ... for I came out of and have come from God."

Jesus IS PART AND PARCEL OF GOD. He came out of God.

The Greek word "exerchomai" is used multiple times in the New Testament, always meaning "to come out of" something. When the demons came out of people, the word is exerchomai. When Lazarus came out of the tomb - it is exerchomai. It's not the same word as or "come" which is "erchomai" (2064). So the "ex" in the front adds the meaning "out of".

You state too much with your notion of the use of "ek" - exerchomai has a much wider usage than you suggest.

God does not have parts - and that's inconsistent with your suggestion that Jesus just "is" God if you now think he came "out of" God as a "part" of him.

Otherwise, too many things to respond to and too scattered and ill-supported - much of it above is just your conjecture and supposition. Far too many assumptions to have a rational discussion based on the word or reason.

[dwight92070]

John 17:2 - Notice that Jesus was given authority over all flesh EVEN BEFORE He was raised from the dead. - Matthew 28:18

John 17:8 - " ...they (the disciples) ... have known surely that I CAME FORTH FROM (or literally came out of) YOU. The Greek word is "exerchomai" (1831 in the Strong's Concordance), which means "to go or come out of". Jesus literally CAME OUT OF the Father. He says it again in John 8:42 - "I CAME OUT OF God." John 13:3 - He knew He had "come out of" God. John 16:27 - "I came out of the Father." John 16:28 - "I came out of the Father."

John 8:42 is fascinating: " ... for I proceeded forth (came out of - 1831) and came (to have come - 2240 in Strong's) from God." So He literally said: " ... for I came out of and have come from God."

Jesus IS PART AND PARCEL OF GOD. He came out of God.

The Greek word "exerchomai" is used multiple times in the New Testament, always meaning "to come out of" something. When the demons came out of people, the word is exerchomai. When Lazarus came out of the tomb - it is exerchomai. It's not the same word as or "come" which is "erchomai" (2064). So the "ex" in the front adds the meaning "out of".

You state too much with your notion of the use of "ek" - exerchomai has a much wider usage than you suggest.

God does not have parts - and that's inconsistent with your suggestion that Jesus just "is" God if you now think he came "out of" God as a "part" of him.

Otherwise, too many things to respond to and too scattered and ill-supported - much of it above is just your conjecture and supposition. Far too many assumptions to have a rational discussion based on the word or reason.

Sure there are other usages of exerchomai, but the meaning of the word is still the same - "to come out of". I never suggested otherwise. The only difference in the usages is what thing or person is coming out of what other thing or person. So that's a moot point.

First of all, I'm using "part and parcel" as a figure of speech - granted I should have said that. But Jesus DID say several times that He came out of the Father. So how would you interpret that?

Once again, it's inconsistent with the laws of science and/or possibly the rules of grammar, but it's totally consistent with John 1:1. The Word was with God (separate from) and yet the Word was God (the same). Jesus came out of God (separate) and yet Jesus is God (the same).

I've read a multitude of conjecture, supposition, and assumptions in your "explanations" that Jesus could not be God - over a period of years now.

[darinhouston]

Sure there are other usages of exerchomai, but the meaning of the word is still the same - "to come out of". I never suggested otherwise. The only difference in the usages is what thing or person is coming out of what other thing or person. So that's a moot point.

You're simply wrong about that - all usage doesn't imply that.

[darinhouston]

First of all, I'm using "part and parcel" as a figure of speech - granted I should have said that. But Jesus DID say several times that He came out of the Father. So how would you interpret that?

I reject your premise

[darinhouston]

First of all, I'm using "part and parcel" as a figure of speech - granted I should have said that. But Jesus DID say several times that He came out of the Father. So how would you interpret that?

Part and parcel, generally means a "necessary" part of something. I don't think that helps your argument very much.

[dwight92070]

Sure there are other usages of exerchomai, but the meaning of the word is still the same - "to come out of". I never suggested otherwise. The only difference in the usages is what thing or person is coming out of what other thing or person. So that's a moot point.

You're simply wrong about that - all usage doesn't imply that.

Okay, since there's a wide range, maybe you could show me, let's say, half a dozen that don't mean that.

[dwight92070]

Darin,
Could you explain why the Lamb of God (Jesus) in Revelation 5 DOES NOT bow down and worship the One who sits on the throne (God the Father)? Millions of angels, the four living creatures, the twenty-four elders, and every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth, and all that is in the sea, and all that are in them, worshiped the One who sits on the throne - But the Lamb of God, Jesus, DID NOT WORSHIP HIM.

Why do you think He did not worship God the Father?

[darinhouston]

Sure there are other usages of exerchomai, but the meaning of the word is still the same - "to come out of". I never suggested otherwise. The only difference in the usages is what thing or person is coming out of what other thing or person. So that's a moot point.

You're simply wrong about that - all usage doesn't imply that.

Okay, since there's a wide range, maybe you could show me, let's say, half a dozen that don't mean that.

I'll leave that to you - it's a simple exercise with a concordance - don't neglect forms like exelthon - the basic idea is proceeding or going forth or going from one place to another or on a mission from a source - not strictly something that was "part" of or "in" something "leaving" or coming "out" of that thing. It is more about "trajectory" and "direction" than "leaving" a source.

[dizerner]

For those who don't think a Biblical Jesus encroaches in description on legitimate idolatry, I encourage a study of Rabbi Tovia Singer's talks, and other Jewish polemics.

They keenly see and feel that a Biblical Christ must fit the definition of idolatry, and rightly so, and put a lot of effort into explaining why.

[dwight92070]

You're simply wrong about that - all usage doesn't imply that.

Okay, since there's a wide range, maybe you could show me, let's say, half a dozen that don't mean that.

I'll leave that to you - it's a simple exercise with a concordance - don't neglect forms like exelthon - the basic idea is proceeding or going forth or going from one place to another or on a mission from a source - not strictly something that was "part" of or "in" something "leaving" or coming "out" of that thing. It is more about "trajectory" and "direction" than "leaving" a source.

I'm sorry, but I thought that if you made a claim, that you would be willing to back it up. But I guess not. No you can't use "exelthon" - we're not even talking about that word or any other form of exerchomai. Jesus used exerchomai to say He came out of God. I never said He used a different form than that in the verses I quoted. Obviously, a different form of exerchomai will have a different meaning. I challenged you to show me the "wide range" of usage by quoting half a dozen places where exerchomai means something other than "came out of" or "go out of" (Strong's), but either you're conceding that there are none, or you're unwilling to back up your claim.