Response to Steve Gregg's article-Is Tithing For Christians?

[Guest]

Amen Sean!

[Guest]

I don't see anywhere in the Bible - Old Testament or new where the tithe is not encouraged....even by Jesus himself.............

Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
(KJV)


I do see where not paying tithes is strongly discouraged...


Mal 3:8-9
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
(KJV)

So I think I'll just stick with the good ol' Bible on this one.

[Guest]

Hi Aaron! I have a question. You say that we need to give to God through His church and give 10% to the church. Would you mind defining "the church?"

[Guest]

Hi Aaron! I have a question. You say that we need to give to God through His church and give 10% to the church. Would you mind defining "the church?"

The place you go to worship God, teach, be taught, whatever you do. The building and people with whom you congregate in the name of the Lord.

[Guest]

I don't see anywhere in the Bible - Old Testament or new where the tithe is not encouraged....even by Jesus himself.............

Matt 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
(KJV)


I do see where not paying tithes is strongly discouraged...


Mal 3:8-9
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
(KJV)

So I think I'll just stick with the good ol' Bible on this one.

The context is: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. These are not Christians Jesus is speaking to.

Jesus afirmed that the scribes and Pharisees paid tithes, just as the law commanded. Are we still under the mozaic law (which is the context of Malachi 3)?

Please explain this statement by Jesus:

Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Jesus, speaking to his disciples told them what to do while offering animal sacrifices. Can you show me any passage by Jesus were he nullifed the law that required animal sacrifices?

Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are not animal sacrifices commanded in the law? Were they not done even before the law? Why are we not offering them? Can you cite a passage were Jesus repealed the law of offering sacrifices? I don't know of a single new testament passage that says: "Stop offering animal sacrifices". As a matter of fact Paul himself went to the temple and performed Jewish rituals.

Aaron, you said "I do see where not paying tithes is strongly discouraged... "

Well I can't find a single passage that discourages animal sacrifices, so using your logic they must be continued to be offered, Even Jesus himself affirmed it!

Sure, you can find passages that explain what animal sacrifices meant, but you cannot, as best I can tell, find a passage that tells us not to offer them.

Now, I don't believe we are obligated to offer animal sacrifices nor pay tithes. I believe that if we understand why we don't offer animal sacrifices anymore we will also understand why we don't pay tithes either.

[Guest]

Hi AARONDISNEY,

Who did people tithe to for most of the last 2,000 years when there wasn't a building? How about aborigines? What do peasant farmers, who do not recieve checks/paper money tithe? What do tribal Africans tithe? To whom?

Are these people robbing God?

Seriously,
JD

[Guest]

John 8:3-7
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
(KJV)

Weren't these men supposed to do this to this woman according to the law and yet Jesus says "don't do it unless you have no sin". These were not Christians He was speaking to - they were scribes and pharisees.
Yet when Jesus mentions to them that they pay tithes of the smallest things, He commends them for doing so.

So I definitely do see a difference between the laws of killing those in sin and offering tithes and if you would seek God's true will - you all might understand this as well.

And for the question about where the tithe goes. If you are far from a Church building or one that you believe teaches the true Word of God, then sure, I believe you can tithe to other Churches or in other ways as long as it's offerd to the Lord.

I believe that if you do have a Church you belong to you should tithe to that Church though.

Also Sean, if you will just read Hebrews 9 and 10 you'll see that it's explained that animal sacrifices no longer do any good to cover sin, since we have the true sacrifice that takes away our sins. It's pretty obvious to me that we no longer need to sacrifice animals. And it is equally obvious to me that not giving a tithe is robbing God.

[Guest]

John 8:3-7
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
(KJV)

Weren't these men supposed to do this to this woman according to the law and yet Jesus says "don't do it unless you have no sin". These were not Christians He was speaking to - they were scribes and pharisees.
Yet when Jesus mentions to them that they pay tithes of the smallest things, He commends them for doing so.

So I definitely do see a difference between the laws of killing those in sin and offering tithes and if you would seek God's true will - you all might understand this as well.

What does that have to do with animal sacrifices? Jesus caught them in their own deception. The law said that anyone found commiting adultery should be stoned, BOTH of them. Yet they only brought the woman. Why do you think that is? And how is it that they just happened to know where to find some people in the very act of adultery? It was obviously a set-up and Jesus called them on it. Not only that, but the greek can read "whoever has not committed this sin may cast the first stone". Imagine being and adulterer yourself and throwing a stone at someone for doing what you do. You would be standing in judgement of yourself.

No matter how you look at it, this passage does not speak to the point I made about animal sacrifices not being explicitly repealed. Nor did you comment on the Matthew 5 passage that stated his disciples would offer sacrifices at the temple.

Also Sean, if you will just read Hebrews 9 and 10 you'll see that it's explained that animal sacrifices no longer do any good to cover sin, since we have the true sacrifice that takes away our sins.

Actually it doesn't say that they no longer cover sins, it says they never covered sins:

Heb 10:3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Heb 10:11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

Sacrifices never took away sins. But they were required, and they were done even before the law required them.

It's pretty obvious to me that we no longer need to sacrifice animals. And it is equally obvious to me that not giving a tithe is robbing God.

Can you find a passage that says to stop sacrificing animals? Why did the Jerusalem church participate in this after the resurrection of Jesus if it was no longer to be done?

It seems obvious to me that since the Levitical priesthood has been done away with, and tithes were suppose to go to the Levites, then there is no longer a Levitical priesthood to tithe to.

This is the same logic you are using to eliminate the continuing practice of animal sacrifices. So why does the requirement to offer animal sacrifices go away but the tithe does not?

"You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law),

Even though sacrifices did not take away sin they were required. In other words this was an act of obedience, like tithing. So one could argue that even though Christ is the antitype of animal sacrifices, that does not mean we should stop doing them.

Since the new testament never mentions a tithe for Christians, why would we put ourselves under the law? Does keeping the law make us righteous? In other words, does giving 10% make you "better" than someone who gives 2%? Would you be better because you "kept the law".

I'm in favor of giving any extra you have and can offer to those in the church who have need. I'm not in favor of getting out the calculator, figuring out how much is 10% of my income and giving that amount and calling myself obedient. I think Jesus has asked more of us then that. Just as Jesus explained the intent of the law is motive, not outward obedience, I believe "tithing" is the same. It's the motive of your giving that counts, not the amount.

1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

[Guest]

Convince a man against his will;
He'll hold the same opinion still.

[Guest]

Convince a man against his will;
He'll hold the same opinion still.

I'm not certain a calvinist would agree. 8)