unpardonable sin

Post by **_glow** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:18 pm

I have wondered for a while how does a follower or anyone really know if they have commited the "unpardonable sin"

Matt12:32 . Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

My mother was raised Catholic and this has troubled her alot. I had a preist come and talk to her once about it ( the only church figure she would take seriously) He told her if she was worried about it, than that showed she hadn't done it.

I also know their are Christian groups that do not recognize the Holy Sprirt as part of a triune God. So are they commiting the unpardonable sin ?.....Just wondering.

Thanks again, You folks are great and very helpful Glow

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri May 05, 2006 12:45 pm

I also know their are Christian groups that do not recognize the Holy Sprirt as part of a triune God. So are they commiting the unpardonable sin ?.....Just wondering.

On the other hand, could it be the Trinitarians who are committing the unpardonable sin? We don't find that doctrine anywhere in the scriptures.

Actually, we dont find anything in the scriptures about an unpardonable sin, either.

Our Lord didn't say that the sin against the Holy Spirit was unpardonable. He said that it wouldn't be forgiven either in this age or in the age to come. There are many ages subsequent to the age to come.

Post by **_djeaton** » Fri May 05, 2006 2:23 pm

Paidion wrote:On the other hand, could it be the Trinitarians who are committing the unpardonable sin? We don't find that doctrine anywhere in the scriptures.

Huh? I can understand the word "trinity" not being found, but the doctrine? If the trinity doctrine is not in the Bible, are we left with tri-theism?
D.

Post by **_glow** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:37 pm

Men ,

How can you know there are more ages to come, that Christ was not reffering to the full time left on this planet after His resurection.? And Paidion are you saying, actually Christ is only meaning the next generation to come and than that so called concern is over???

When Christ was giving a parable about forgiving 70x7, do you think that is actually the mathematical equation he was reffering to and then we should stop?? I don't, I believe it is meant to signify we are not to stop but to continually forgive, like Our Father does. Christ spoke in parables all the time. And I believe the Holy Spirit reveals the deeper insight in our spirits in Him. The Holy Spirit that dwells within us. We are counseled by Him.

And as far as no where in scripture does it speak of a triune God.I don't understand how you glean that from the word.I read many scriptures that speak of God the father, Christ His son and the Holy Spirit all powerful, perfection, united .I don't mean to be smug, that is just how I see it and live it. Thanks guys....Glow

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:27 pm

Matt12:32 . Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Hi Glow, I think this had to do with the Pharisees accusing Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub (Satan) instead of by the Holy Spirit even though they really knew who Christ was.

Post by **_glow** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:43 pm

thanks Steve..

.I never knew that. But do you also think he was only addressing the Pharisees. Not Possibly other folks in the future etc.?

Like when folks now might say, "I believe the Holy spirit told me to do so and so etc."...what if that is demons they are listening to and not the Holy Spirit but giving the Holy Spirit credit for it?

Wouldn't that be the same kind of action the Pharisees were doing then? So would it be considered blaspheming?

Glow

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:46 am

Hi Glow, According to the notes in my KJV by Nelson there are six sins against the Holy Spirit.
Blaspheming , Luke 31.31 & 10
lying or tempting Acts 5.4,9
despising Heb 10.29
resisting or striving with Gen 6.3 , acts 7.51
vexing or grieving Is 63.10, Eph 4.30
quenching 1 Thes 5.19
However one of the consequences of this action is that the HS stops convicting the person of sin therefore if one is concerned about this then they are not beyond grace. I think if a person is ignorant of the Holy Spirit they probably could'nt blaspheme Him.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:50 am

Like when folks now might say, "I believe the Holy spirit told me to do so and so etc."...what if that is demons they are listening to and not the Holy Spirit but giving the Holy Spirit credit for it?

Wouldn't that be the same kind of action the Pharisees were doing then? So would it be considered blaspheming?

Not if their mistake is unintentional. The Pharisees knew but could'nt accept it.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:56 am

Huh? I can understand the word "trinity" not being found, but the doctrine? If the trinity doctrine is not in the Bible, are we left with tri-theism?

No, we are not left with tri-theism. Nor are we left with modalism (the belief that there is exactly One divine Person who manifests Himself in three modes, the Father in Heaven, The Son when He was born as a human being, and the Holy Spirit, when He indwells people).

If we can accept historic Christianity as it was taught in the first and second century, we are left with the Father, who generated (or "begat") His Son before all ages (or, as I see it, at the beginning of time), the first act of the Father, and the Holy Spirit, the Persons of the Father and the Son. Jesus said:

If a person loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. John 14:23

Jesus and His Father makes their dwelling within a person who loves Him.
Is that not the Holy Spirit? Indeed in another scripture it is stated that the Lord [Jesus] IS the Spirit. Why invent a third Person?

And as far as no where in scripture does it speak of a triune God.I don't understand how you glean that from the word.I read many scriptures that speak of God the father, Christ His son and the Holy Spirit all powerful, perfection, united .

Yes, you do, but you don't read of "God the Son" and "God the Spirit" as Trinitarians maintain, do you?

We read also of the world, the flesh, and the devil. Does that mean that the devil is also a trinity?

I used to illustrate the Deity to children with two pieces of wood, a longer one and a shorter one. I told them the longer one represented the Father, and the shorter one, the Son. Then I asked, how many altogether? Their answer was "two". Then I said, "Right, but in a sense there are three. The longer, piece, the shorter piece, and the wood itself. The wood represents the Holy Spirit. The Father and the Son share the same Spirit."

Post by **_djeaton** » Sat May 06, 2006 10:27 am

Paidion wrote:No, we are not left with tri-theism. Nor are we left with modalism (the belief that there is exactly One divine Person who manifests Himself in three modes, the Father in Heaven, The Son when He was born as a human being, and the Holy Spirit, when He indwells people).

I'm familiar with modalism. Perfect example of that is the example of the ice, liquid, and steam example of water. It might be OK to explain the Trinity that way to young kids, but when they get older, they should be taught better.

Jesus and His Father makes their dwelling within a person who loves Him. Is that not the Holy Spirit? Indeed in another scripture it is stated that the Lord [Jesus] IS the Spirit. Why invent a third Person?

Jesus also spoke of the Comforter in the third person. If we just pick the versus that teach their unity and oneness, it is real easy to ignore their uniqueness. When you see verses like "and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove", it makes it seem real contrived to say that Jesus descended upon himself.
D.